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Non-MR maillons

I assume that the GS ones are made in China, unless anyone knows otherwise?

20kN seems like quite a conservative breaking load, but I’ve not tested one to find out.

They only make sense to use on fixed rigging which is going to be left in place semi-permanently. They’re definitely a big improvement on using non-stainless hardwear. Ideally I’d use the stainless ppe rated ones, but the cost is prohibitively expensive when it comes out of your own pocket!
 
Not British, what a disgrace. People using foreign maillon rapides..? Cutting corners making oval links no doubt, wouldn't put it past them!

🤣
 
I have to admit I am excited by many of the Lappas products - the 8mm non-long 316 maillons are only €3 (albeit the gate opening is only 9mm, so putting 10mm rope in might be tricky), 316 hangers are €1.80 and they also do (relatively) cheap stainless snapgates (~£12) for fixed deviations which are hard to find. Obviously those are ex VAT prices, and postage and handling is pricey but can no doubt be ameliorated over a large enough order.
 
I’ve been following this thread with interest. Here’s my two penn’orth. All Peguet Maillon Rapide connectors are designed primarily for use where a more permanent attachment is required, as opposed to a conventional carabiner type connector where there will be much more frequent opening and closing.

A large proportion of scaffolders type harnesses have a M/R to semi-permanently attach an energy absorbing lanyard to the dorsal attachment ring and have a carabiner or MGO (Scaffhook) type connector at the other end of the lanyard for more frequent use.

A correctly torqued M/R shouldn't be able to unscrew itself in normal use. Some M/R's have a captive bar that helps stop them spinning around on the attachment point and so avoids any misloading issues and also helps further prevent the sleeve from unscrewing in use. The M/R's that semi-permanently attach my reserve parachute to my paragliding harness have captive bars across them. My wing risers are attached to the harness with square, triple action carabiner connectors, as these are usually opened and closed much more frequently.

The first thing to look at when carrying out a proper Thorough Examination of a M/R, whether rated as PPE or Lifting Gear, would be its markings.

In industry we would always expect to see a M/R used as part of a personal fall protection system to be rated as a PPE connector and have, amongst other things, EN362 written on it.

M/R's used for lifting operations should always be marked with their Working Load Limit (WLL).

The same sized Lifting Gear rated Peguet M/R's are exactly the same as the PPE rated ones but with different markings, i.e., they will have a WLL marked on them and, as andrewmcleod mentioned, the PPE rated ones will have additional user instructions in their individual packaging. That's why they are a lot more expensive. The PPE rated Peguet M/R's are also uniquely marked with a traceable serial number for quality assurance and recall purposes. I think this may also be the case for the WLL versions.

If a 'Quick Link', whether used for the attachment of PPE of for a lifting operation had no markings at all then it would FAIL a Thorough Examination. I personally wouldn’t touch an unmarked quick link connector for personal suspension purposes with a barge pole, regardless of how strong it is claimed to be.

I've supplied hundreds of the galvanised 7mm Long M/R's to caving expeditions over the years and they have all been the WLL rated ones simply because of the significant price difference.

Whilst the GS or any other such un-marked connectors may be perfectly strong enough to suspend a person from, the quality systems manufacturers of PPE have to have in place to confirm that they are strong enough to consistently meet the requirements of the EN362 or other appropriate standards are usually a lot more stringent.

You can be sure that if you asked GS if you could hang a person from one of their 'quick links', they would say ABSOLUTELY NOT.

The Lappas ones are interesting. They start by getting the major and minor axis ratings the wrong way round on their website listing.

None of the M/R’s on their site appear to have a CE mark or any detail of the Notified Body which carried out their initial testing. This is the 4-digit number that should be immediately after the CE mark if they are rated as PPE, or just the CE mark for lifting gear. Being on a climbing website they are clearly selling them for personal suspension purposes but there is no user information supplied on their site relating to this.

They do seem to have gone to a lot of trouble to squeeze as much laser engraving/stamping on the side of them as they possibly can, but no CE mark?

I examine all sorts of different PPE and lifting gear as part of my job and do sometimes come across equipment that just doesn’t seem to be quite right in its claimed conformity. Only recently we were presented with some CE marked 700kg WLL eyebolts that had been laser engraved by a third party with EN795 on the opposite side of the lifting eye to the other markings. The CE mark on these actually related to the eyebolt being used for lifting purposes and not as a PPE anchor.

Whilst the paperwork we eventually saw suggested they were genuine, I wasn't convinced and put them straight into the ‘Dubious’ category. I would put the Lappas quick links in the same category.

I was in B&Q the other day and noticed they sell unmarked 'Quick Links'.


Would you ask your mate to hang on one of these?
 
I wouldn't force someone, but the chances of them failing are miniscule. Worryingly they are only listed as being metal - but zinc coated suggests that they are steel, which initially deforms under load, rather than just snapping, like alloy - "Please note that these chain accessories are not suitable for overhead lifting, load binding, or towing purposes."
binding = bearing?
 
I have to admit I am excited by many of the Lappas products - the 8mm non-long 316 maillons are only €3 (albeit the gate opening is only 9mm, so putting 10mm rope in might be tricky), 316 hangers are €1.80 and they also do (relatively) cheap stainless snapgates (~£12) for fixed deviations which are hard to find. Obviously those are ex VAT prices, and postage and handling is pricey but can no doubt be ameliorated over a large enough order.

ameliorated - nice
 
I was in B&Q the other day and noticed they sell unmarked 'Quick Links'.


Would you ask your mate to hang on one of these?
A significant number of the 8mm throughbolts in one of the caves in question are random Screwfix bolts (the ones with a gold colour) which is basically the same as going down B&Q and buying a load of bolts; I suspect this is the more likely source of failure than a steel quick link! We have switched to Fischer bolts which still aren't PPE but at least are a quality German brand and have approvals for things (not things relevant to caving, of course).
 
Here’s an example of some certified, bought at a caving shop, PPE rated maillons from today. I think they’ve been underground for about 15 years. There’s no doubt hundreds of them in this state throughout the Dales.

I’m strongly of the opinion that using unmarked 316 quick links would be a safer option.

IMG_2461.jpeg
 
Don't underrate (un)planned obsolescence! If it's been there 15 years then the rope needs replacing, which would be less likely to happen if it had a shiny connector...

Different story if it was left on an alloy hanger though.
 
Don't underrate (un)planned obsolescence! If it's been there 15 years then the rope needs replacing, which would be less likely to happen if it had a shiny connector...

Different story if it was left on an alloy hanger though.
Why do you say the rope needs replacing?
 
The 'Similar threads' list drew my attention to 'Maillon Rapide Safety Warning'. I learned three things:

1. Buying Peguet maillons doesn't necessarily mean they won't be defective, but it does illustrate that when a defective one is found, the stamp enables the batch to be identified.

2. Peguet maillons are zinc plated (zingué), not galvanised (galvanisé) as they are usually described (I've just checked the two main retailers I use). This is quite significant, zinc plating is typically 3 microns thick, galvanising is approx 50 microns. The reason is probably the effect on the threads, but it makes a big difference to longevity.

3. (Doh!) Maillons Rapide are made by Peguet, not Peugeot!

Thinking about the cause of cracking, I've always assumed that the manufacturing process requires forming the threads on the straight rod, fitting the nut and then bending the rod into shape, as the nut can't be fitted once it's bent. Getting the alignment of the threads must be a key part of the process. Whatever coating is used has to be applied before the nut is fitted, so has to be protected while bending. Does anyone know different? Is there another way to make them that I've missed?
 
I'd argue that in a dark place without flowing water (like a cave) the rope will keep its strength much longer than non stainless metalwork.
Having used some 40 year old rope and metal, the rope was absolutely fine and the metal was all corroded and shot
 
Yes the rope can be fine, doesn't mean that we should expect it to be, as that breeds complacency.
 
From my spares bag - I'm afraid I'm in the Safety First contingent, which partly explains why I'm always skint.

IMG_20250310_091549_MP.jpg
 
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