Ogof Draenen

[whitelackington]

The Ogof Draenen System is a World class system and seems likely to one day be found to be
the most extensive cave system in The British Isles.
This system will have many entrances, mostly currently buried.
Is it the intention of the PDCMG to stop any uncovering of these entrances,
even if they are on land of different ownership?

 

[bubba]

This system will have many entrances, mostly currently buried.
Is it the intention of the PDCMG to stop any uncovering of these entrances,
even if they are on land of different ownership?

I doubt they will ever find out. After their recent attitude I suspect future diggers will do their utmost to hide any such discoveries and undermine any sort of control that they still cling to.

 

[graham]

This system will have many entrances, mostly currently buried.
Is it the intention of the PDCMG to stop any uncovering of these entrances,
even if they are on land of different ownership?

I doubt they will ever find out. After their recent attitude I suspect future diggers will do their utmost to hide any such discoveries and undermine any sort of control that they still cling to.

Yeah, right. Give me one instance of a serious breakthrough being kept secret for more than a very short time. 

 

[bubba]

Yeah, right. Give me one instance of a serious breakthrough being kept secret for more than a very short time. 

Well we wouldn't know, would we?

 

[graham]

Yeah, right. Give me one instance of a serious breakthrough being kept secret for more than a very short time. 

Well we wouldn't know, would we?

Ah, but I can give you plenty of instances of failed attempts to keep finds secret.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Can The PDCMG let the rest of us know
is Ogof Draenen open or closed?

You know the latest access procedure. So until you learn otherwise you should assume this to still hold good.  I cannot help thinking that this topic was started just as a new channel to stir up trouble and as such it is a regretful and unhelpful thing to have happened.

 

[SamT]

Nope - Wrong Peter.

It was split from another topic by me as I was genuinely interested to see if the land owners had stood by their ultimatum and were going to revoke access to all if no compromise was agreed. I understood April the 1st was "D Day".

It would seem that no compromise was met, so I was expecting to hear news of the access having been lost.

It would appear they did not, though nobody apart from Damien has confirmed or denied it yet. It would be nice to hear from the horses mouth.

My feelings on the decision? I'll save them for the pub.

(I do wonder if Nigel did find another entrance or if this has been one all mighty and well coordinated April Fool  )

 

[NigR]

Give me one instance of a serious breakthrough being kept secret for more than a very short time. 

How would you define 'serious' and what would you regard as 'a very short time'?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Ok Sam. But it would be good to see some constructive comments for a change otherwise we may just end up with another locked topic that achieved diddly sqat.

 

[Ship-badger]

Yeah, right. Give me one instance of a serious breakthrough being kept secret for more than a very short time. 

What about the "Tunnels Left" entrance into Otter Hole?

 

[SamT]

it would be good to see some constructive comments

bit confused by this statement Peter. Constructive comments? in what sense?

Constructive statements would be ones by the PDCMG about what happened on the first of April with regards to the land owners ultimatum, what the outcome was and how that affects things going forward. Thats all.

 

[Hughie]

Unfortunately I lobbed the "Stop Press" bit of Descent - as it forms the address label, in my haste to get at the mag.

However, as a digger, I'll still happily work with Landowners, respecting their property and wishes. Still trying to get access to a several hundred acre chunk of Mendip that has been out of bounds - just waiting for nature to take it's course. Until such time comes we can wait.

 

[Imo]

Surely Sam, the correct place for this information is PDCMG's own website or Cambrian's access pages?

Assuming that is that they wish to publicise the information further than their own members (which they already have)

Don't know who manages this website, but its a BH weekend. Always slow to be updated.

 

[Imo]

Can The PDCMG let the rest of us know
is Ogof Draenen open or closed?

I am sure we are mostly unclear what has happened.
I thought the Landowners either wanted a compromise
or Ogof Draenen would be closed to cavers.
As we have not heard of a compromise
does this mean that the Landowners have changed their minds?

The Landowners wanted an agreement to a one entrance system - you know that as well as I do.  Its in their letter - its the terms under which access is granted (for many years). This thread is going to go in circles again. Its pointless.

The only place to change this current access agreement is at the PDCMG with a majority and then the PDCMG have to negotiate that with the landowner.

The landowner has the last say. We all know this - its the same everywhere.

 

[whitelackington]

Can The PDCMG let the rest of us know
is Ogof Draenen open or closed?

I am sure we are mostly unclear what has happened.
I thought the Landowners either wanted a compromise
or Ogof Draenen would be closed to cavers.
As we have not heard of a compromise
does this mean that the Landowners have changed their minds?

The Landowners wanted an agreement to a one entrance system - you know that as well as I do.  Its in their letter - its the terms under which access is granted (for many years). This thread is going to go in circles again. Its pointless.

The only place to change this current access agreement is at the PDCMG with a majority and then the PDCMG have to negotiate that with the landowner.

The landowner has the last say. We all know this - its the same everywhere.

You are misrepresenting the case.
The Landowners wanted a compromise or the system would be closed to all.
As far as I am aware there is as yet no agreed compromise .

 

[SamT]

Ogof Draenen will be staying open, but with access only through the original entrance. I have a copy of the most recent landowners' e-mail that confirms this.

Whitelackington..  Damien is the only person to have posted an update on the current situation. From what I've heard off these forums, that is correct and how it stands.

Yes - the landowners seem to have backed down on their ultimatum. Draenen remains open via its original entrance.

I guess there's no point in entering another debate on the subject as the above is pretty final by all accounts.

I agree that it would have been nice if PDCMG could have had the where with all to make an official announcement, either here or on their site, or the CCC site.
But they didn't, ho hum, we all now know the outcome.
Life goes on etc.

 

[Imo]

Can The PDCMG let the rest of us know
is Ogof Draenen open or closed?

I am sure we are mostly unclear what has happened.
I thought the Landowners either wanted a compromise
or Ogof Draenen would be closed to cavers.
As we have not heard of a compromise
does this mean that the Landowners have changed their minds?

The Landowners wanted an agreement to a one entrance system - you know that as well as I do.  Its in their letter - its the terms under which access is granted (for many years). This thread is going to go in circles again. Its pointless.

The only place to change this current access agreement is at the PDCMG with a majority and then the PDCMG have to negotiate that with the landowner.

The landowner has the last say. We all know this - its the same everywhere.

You are misrepresenting the case.
The Landowners wanted a compromise or the system would be closed to all.
As far as I am aware there is as yet no agreed compromise .

I don't believe that I am misrepresenting the case.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Why are you moaning? It seems the cave is still open yet all some people want to do is bitch that they haven't had direct confirmation of this. What is your problem?

 

[SamT]

why do you keep stoking the fire then peter!!

I've said my piece. ta ta.

 

[graham]

Yes - the landowners seem to have backed down on their ultimatum. Draenen remains open via its original entrance.

Don't see how that's backing down, given that's been their policy all along.