Ogof Draenen

[graham]

How do any clubs become the beneficiaries of a SSSI?  :-\

The designation would give legal force to preventing pollution of your club by, for example, Whitlackingtons.

 

[Hughie]

This snippet taken from the PDCMG website
Quote
"It is in process of being listed as a Site of Special Scientific Importance. "



If this were to happen,
is it likely that the "One entrance policy" of the PDCMG
could be enshrined in law and if so is this the main purpose of getting Ogof Draenen
listed?

If this thinking is behind it, would the university clubs be the main beneficiaries?

From the Natural England website:-

By law, we must notify all owners and occupiers of any land that we consider to be of special interest because of any of its flora, fauna, or geological and physiographical features. We must also inform the local planning authority, Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and certain public bodies, such as the Environment Agency, water and sewerage companies and internal drainage boards about SSSIs.

An SSSI is also registered as a local land charge, which means that all future owners and occupiers are also bound by the laws protecting SSSIs.

Don't see it's going to benefit anybody over another.

 

[AndyF]

Might stop any further digging in the cave.... and/or a whole extra bound of bureaucracy and form filling if you want to do any. That should delight some people..

 

[NigR]

Might stop any further digging in the cave....

Or on the surface?

That should delight some people....

Precisely.

 

[ChrisJC]

Sounds like a retrograde step to me. Perhaps the motivation is political....

Chris.

 

[Hatstand]

At hidden earth this year I tech'd two talks on conservation, one in Yorkshire (dealt primarily with the Northern Caves Monitoring Project) and the second in Derbyshire. There were many similarities but the second dealt quite a bit with SSSIs and digging, and it didn't seem as though land being a SSSI was a total barrier to digging. Indeed English Nature or whoever they are provided leaflets titled something like "Digging on SSSIs"... ...there's one pinned up on our club notice board.

 

[whitelackington]

It would be terrible if certain university clubs on the spurious grounds of scientific studies
rendered any new discovery in the U.K. out of bounds to ordinary cavers,
unless those ordinary cavers were willing to be subservient
to the wishes of those university clubs.

 

[graham]

At hidden earth this year I tech'd two talks on conservation, one in Yorkshire (dealt primarily with the Northern Caves Monitoring Project) and the second in Derbyshire. There were many similarities but the second dealt quite a bit with SSSIs and digging, and it didn't seem as though land being a SSSI was a total barrier to digging. Indeed English Nature or whoever they are provided leaflets titled something like "Digging on SSSIs"... ...there's one pinned up on our club notice board.

Don't confuse 'em with facts, Hat.

 

[testgerbil]

It would be terrible if certain university clubs on the spurious grounds of scientific studies
rendered any new discovery in the U.K. out of bounds to ordinary cavers,
unless those ordinary cavers were willing to be subservient
to the wishes of those university clubs.

Yes, that would be pretty terrible, which is why nothing of the sort is going to happen.

Also, could you be more specific? "Certain university clubs" - which clubs do you mean?

P

 

[Martin Laverty]

I think some context would be useful here:
Whitelackington's quote is taken from the Science page of the PDCMG site and has been there, unchanged, for many years.
There is another reference to SSSI status in the PDCMG Conservation Plan (approved 14/6/2003) under the heading "Statutory Protection", where it says:
"The cave is currently a Regionally Important Geological Site (RIGS) and Siambri Ddu is designated a Site of Special Scientific Importance (SSSI) although Draenen itself doesn't have SSSI status at the moment.
SSSI status should be considered. "
Ogof Draenen also merited a chapter to itself, alongside most of Britain's significant caves (which are SSSIs) in Volume 12 of the Geological Conservation Review (Karst and Caves of Great Britain), published in 1997, even though it wasn't - and isn't - an SSSI.

As far as I am aware, the PDCMG has not made any moves to consider SSSI status so, unless someone actually knows of unreported activity (by Pwll-ddu Conservation Ltd, Countryside Council for Wales, or Cambrian Caving Council?) there seems little point in the current postings here.

However, it may be noted that the further reaches of the cave (but none current of the entrances) are under the Blorenge SSSI [ http://www.ccw.gov.uk/interactive-maps/official-maps-search/official-maps.aspx?sitetype=SSSI&sitecode=0748 ] which has had that status since 1971 on botanical grounds.

 

[complex]

It would be terrible if certain university clubs on the spurious grounds of scientific studies
rendered any new discovery in the U.K. out of bounds to ordinary cavers,
unless those ordinary cavers were willing to be subservient
to the wishes of those university clubs.

It would be terrible if certain cavers on the spurious grounds of uncontrolled open access, rendered any access to one of the best caves in the UK out of bounds to ordinary cavers, even if those ordinary cavers were willing to be subservient to the wishes of those certain cavers.

 

[AndyF]

At hidden earth this year I tech'd two talks on conservation, one in Yorkshire (dealt primarily with the Northern Caves Monitoring Project) and the second in Derbyshire. There were many similarities but the second dealt quite a bit with SSSIs and digging, and it didn't seem as though land being a SSSI was a total barrier to digging. Indeed English Nature or whoever they are provided leaflets titled something like "Digging on SSSIs"... ...there's one pinned up on our club notice board.

Quite true, I've seen the leaflet, but it means you have to go through English nature et al to get permission - which is exactly the buraeucarcy I was indicating...

And for the record,I have been refused permission by English Nature to dig inside a cave on one Peak SSSI.

 

[SpeleoTrog]

As far as I am aware, the PDCMG has not made any moves to consider SSSI status so, unless someone actually knows of unreported activity (by Pwll-ddu Conservation Ltd, Countryside Council for Wales, or Cambrian Caving Council?) there seems little point in the current postings here.

But why would anyone (especially Whitelackington) want to let little things like truth or facts spoil a good debate? Or even a bad one? It's much more fun to take an old quote, out of context and then rant over it. Facts are for losers, real life is all about speculation!

 

[whitelackington]

Sorry if you thought I was ranting.
That was my first look @ the PDCMG website, I found that quote in seconds,
I have no idea when that snippet was inserted into their website.
I am concerned that the majority of cavers will be effectively disenfranchised by
university club  intelligentsia, from U.K. major discoveries,
I really hope I am completely wrong.

 

[droid]

Is your problem that 'the majority of cavers will be effectively disenfranchised', or that this might be done by 'university club intelligencia'?

Would you be happier if it was a bona fide 'civilian' Caving Club, or the landowner?

:ang:

 

[cavermark]

Sorry if you thought I was ranting.
That was my first look @ the PDCMG website, I found that quote in seconds,
I have no idea when that snippet was inserted into their website.
I am concerned that the majority of cavers will be effectively disenfranchised by
university club  intelligentsia, from U.K. major discoveries,
I really hope I am completely wrong.

Some might say that the majority of cavers ARE university club intelligentsia (or were at one time or another)?

 

[seddon]

Or university club non - intelligentsia?

 

[cavermark]

and non university intellingentsia?

 

[seddon]

At some point or another, they've all been endarkened...

Sadly, some stray to the light side.