Ogof Draenen

[pete_the_caver]

I was looking at the gate yesterday and in my opinion it would be very easy to cap in a way that is bat friendly

 

[Peter Burgess]

Likewise in Surrey the bat group is very friendly and easy with cavers (sorry mine explorers). They funded the bat gates which cavers designed and installed.

 

[whitelackington]

I was looking at the gate yesterday and in my opinion it would be very easy to cap in a way that is bat friendly

It might be more helpful if "they" could make Ogof Draenen more caver friendly?

 

[Rhys]

I've had a quick looked at the bat grilling recommendations. Although I've not been to see Drws Cefn in person, from the photo here ( http://www.pdcmg.org.uk/SF%20DRWS%20CEFN.pdf ) it would appear that the existing gate, (installed by the diggers without any input from PDCMG) is not particularly bat friendly either. It looks like both parties may need to get their house in order on this issue!

Rhys

 

[SamT]

Love the blurred out faces - very 'dark places'. 

 

[whitelackington]

CD is locked and gated AFAIK. If it stays that way can't see what more needs to be done..

Remember that this is all in the blink of an eye in terms of the cave. In 50 years there will be probably be different committee members and different landowners with maybe different attitudes.

For a present generation to do irreversible damage to a natural cave due to a short term disagreement would be ....well......totally unsurprising actually.

Yes, if it has been gated inside and padlocked, what more needs to be done.
The concreting over of the D.C. entrance would be as pointless as a victory parade.

 

[Rhys]

CD is locked and gated AFAIK. If it stays that way can't see what more needs to be done..

Remember that this is all in the blink of an eye in terms of the cave. In 50 years there will be probably be different committee members and different landowners with maybe different attitudes.

For a present generation to do irreversible damage to a natural cave due to a short term disagreement would be ....well......totally unsurprising actually.

Yes, if it has been gated inside and padlocked, what more needs to be done.
The concreting over of the D.C. entrance would be as pointless as a victory parade.

Whitelackington

I took the trouble to give a possible  answer to AndyF's question at the time it was posted. I said:

"It'd probably be too quick and easy for people to break in. That's what led to the Nunnery entrance gate getting a layer of concrete over it. I'm not saying it would happen again, but that would be the fear."

I hope that helps
Rhys

 

[John S]

"It'd probably be too quick and easy for people to break in. That's what led to the Nunnery entrance gate getting a layer of concrete over it. I'm not saying it would happen again, but that would be the fear."

I hope that helps
Rhys

Not  exactly true. Find out the real story before making such a sweeping statement. A bit long to go into hear but a similar story to DC and PDCMG being control obsessed.

 

[John S]

I've had a quick looked at the bat grilling recommendations. Although I've not been to see Drws Cefn in person, from the photo here ( http://www.pdcmg.org.uk/SF%20DRWS%20CEFN.pdf ) it would appear that the existing gate, (installed by the diggers without any input from PDCMG) is not particularly bat friendly either. It looks like both parties may need to get their house in order on this issue!

Rhys

The local bat guy has had an input here, and as a quick measure this was fine, modifications maybe required later but the other entrances were of far more concern.

 

[Rhys]

Not  exactly true. Find out the real story before making such a sweeping statement. A bit long to go into hear but a similar story to DC and PDCMG being control obsessed.

John

I'm sorry you think my interpretation is not exactly correct. I was not directly involved. As I recall, there was a series of closings and openings, after which it was closed in such a fashion as to deter a quick break-in with boltcroppers/hacksaw or whatever. I'm happy to revise my Drws Cefn answer to:

"It'd probably be too quick and easy for people to break in. I'm not saying it would happen, but that would be the fear".

Rhys

 

[Rhys]

The local bat guy has had an input here, and as a quick measure this was fine, modifications maybe required later but the other entrances were of far more concern.

It just looks a long way short of the guidelines you provided a link to, but I'm no expert. In fact, I can't stand the little furry flappy b*****ds, they give me the creeps ;-)

Rhys

 

[shortscotsman]

The local bat guy has had an input here, and as a quick measure this was fine, modifications maybe required later but the other entrances were of far more concern.

A bit confused.  The gate on the original entrance has been in place a long time (early 1990's)  and is completely closed. It might
have caused problems when installed but presumably the bats have adapted (gone elsewhere...?) so its not interfering with their
behaviour.    Is it known whether bats are using the nunnery entrance? If there are it should be dealt with but if not...

I would have thought that since the Drws Cefn gate is new that it was more likely to affect the bats current behaviour and hence more important to get right.  The link you gave gives very specific dimensions and shapes for bat grills.

Is it the same `bat people' who look after Llangotock who are advising on Draenen?

 

[whitelackington]

This thread has gone SILENT over the last three weeks,
is that because everything is now honkydory?

 

[j4nny]

lets hope so, it was getting rather repetitive on here. 

 

[whitelackington]

Can The PDCMG let the rest of us know
is Ogof Draenen open or closed?

What is the more surprising? That PDCMG have not announced anything in public or that nobody else has posted on this topic? I can quite understand the former but the latter baffles me.

Is it not about time the PDCMG told us whether or not these gate criminals have been aprehended
and if the gates have been replaced.
Why are the PDCMG so reticent with their statements
and advertising their meetings,
don't they want the "wrong" people to attend?

 

[graham]

Why are the PDCMG so reticent with their statements
and advertising their meetings,
don't they want the "wrong" people to attend?

Why the f*** is someone who never attends meetings so fucking obsessed with them?

 

[NigR]

Is it not about time the PDCMG told us whether or not these gate criminals have been apprehended and if the gates have been replaced?

The following is included in the Secretary's Report to the PDCMG General Meeting due to take place on Saturday 20th November 2010:

Gates

On the evening of Wednesday 7th July the gates to both the Ogof Draenen main entrance and Drws Cefn were removed without authorisation. This first came to my attention when I went to do a trip to Dollimores on the 8th July. I immediately reported this to the landowners, who whilst not impressed at this further disruption were fortunately relatively understanding of the situation.

We subsequently learned that there was a very narrow window for the removal of the gate on the main entrance as a party from SWCC had entered the cave that evening with the gate in place and later exited with the gate absent.

This incident was reported to the police by the landowners and was treated as a follow up to previous reported incidents on PwllDu Conservation owned land. I was required to formally report the loss to the police and contacted all the keyholders regarding the location of their keys which were judged to have been required in order to facilitate removal of the gate.

No further information about the removal of the gates has since come to light either from within the caving community or from the police enquiry.

A replacement gate was ordered in July. This is currently under manufacture and at time of writing completion of a replacement gate is expected to be complete within the next few days. I will provide an update as soon as this is complete and there is a planned date for installations.

 

[SpeleoTrog]

Why are the PDCMG so reticent with their statements
and advertising their meetings,
don't they want the "wrong" people to attend?

Why the f*** is someone who never attends meetings so fucking obsessed with them?

And why does he assume that everything should be posted here? The PDCMG website clearly states that the PDCMG meet twice a year and the minutes of those meetings are posted on their website. There hasn't been a meeting since July (as Nig says the next one is tomorrow) so how can you accuse them of being reticent?

Also why should the PDCMG advertise the meeting dates outside of it's normal circulation? They have no obligation to post meeting dates on here or to keep you personally informed. All member clubs will have the dates and, if you're a club member, your rep should be able to to tell you the meeting dates. Stop demanding to be spoon fed the information and put some effort into asking the right people the right questions! You might be surprised how easy it is to get the answers!

 

[whitelackington]

This snippet taken from the PDCMG website
Quote
"It is in process of being listed as a Site of Special Scientific Importance. "



If this were to happen,
is it likely that the "One entrance policy" of the PDCMG
could be enshrined in law and if so is this the main purpose of getting Ogof Draenen
listed?

If this thinking is behind it, would the university clubs be the main beneficiaries?

 

[Les W]

This snippet taken from the PDCMG website
Quote
"It is in process of being listed as a Site of Special Scientific Importance. "



If this were to happen,
is it likely that the "One entrance policy" of the PDCMG
could be enshrined in law and if so is this the main purpose of getting Ogof Draenen
listed?

If this thinking is behind it, would the university clubs be the main beneficiaries?

How do any clubs become the beneficiaries of a SSSI?  :-\