Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC

[andrewmcleod]

The ventilator pitch rigging now shows the fixed traverse lines and the rope lengths required to pull through, as this is the way the pitches are normally done.

Just to do my complete idiot check here (me being the idiot), when you say the 'rope lengths required to pull through', do you mean the pitch lengths are shown (13m, 17m and 16m) and should therefore be interpreted to mean either bring 2 x 17m ropes or a 34m rope?

Peak District Rigging Guide - Peak Cavern / Speedwell - White River

 

[wellyjen]

Just to do my complete idiot check here (me being the idiot), when you say the 'rope lengths required to pull through', do you mean the pitch lengths are shown (13m, 17m and 16m) and should therefore be interpreted to mean either bring 2 x 17m ropes or a 34m rope?

Peak District Rigging Guide - Peak Cavern / Speedwell - White River

It's always a good idea to ask. The rope lengths are the ones with circles around them, not the pitch lengths. So for Fever, Ventilator and Terminator you'll need 30m, 60m and 40m of rope respectively. Which could be made up of any combination you like, depending on how much spare rope you are comfortable taking to cope with a rope hang up when pulling them down.

There is no standard for drawing topos and each group that does them uses different symbols, which is why it is important to check the key to confirm their meanings. The Crewe key is included with each download. CCPC and the DCA do something similar with theirs. It would be a good idea if some one like the BCA came up with a standard rigging topo key, similar to the standards for cave surveys, but for the present, there isn't one.

You'll see that 13m for the Fever Pitch height is less than half the 30m rope length recommended. Similarly with the other two pitches, the rope length is more than twice the pitch height. There are several reasons for this. You'll need extra rope for the pull down knot and also for the knot at the end of at least the abseil rope so there is no risk of sliding off the end, if you pulled the wrong rope from the bag. In some cases, you'll want a bit extra to ensure you can reach either the next pitch, or the traverse to it, while still on the previous rope. Secondly, the pitch heights aren't guaranteed to be totally accurate, whereas the rope lengths are measured. Thirdly, for a pull through, you want too much rope, rather than too little. Once the Fever rope is pulled down, you are committed and finding you don't have enough rope to do the next two is going to leave you either waiting to be rescued, or doing some improvisation and leaving ropes behind. Ropes shrink with age and this continues slowly through their life. The tape measure used to measure them probably isn't completely traceable back to the National Physical Laboratory, so what is written on the end could be out by several metres on a long rope. The lengths given on the guide for pull through ropes are therefore on the generous side.

Hope that helps. Multi-pitch pull through trips are a lot of fun, but they are committing, so you have to be sure of what you are about before you start.
Jen

 

[wellyjen]

To add. Probably the minimum I'd take for a pull through from White River to the Trenches would be something like 30m and a 60m, or three of 30m ropes. That way, if a 30m got stuck on Fever Pitch, you could get down Terminator and Ventilator on the 60m. If the 60m, or two 30's stuck on Terminator, you've got a 30m left to hard rig Ventilator with a single rope. Only if you had both Fever and Terminator hang up, with no chance of retrieval, then it really isn't your lucky day and you would you be stuck, wondering if you should take up macrame as a hobby instead!
Now I've written this, you can guess what is guaranteed to happen to me the next trip there.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Thanks 60m seemed like a lot for a 17m pitch, but I guess it all depends for all the reasons you specify particularly, I imagine, the distance from the bottom of the pitch to the next anchors (I'd initially thought 60m was what was needed to rig the traverse and pitch as for the other pitches as it seemed long).

 

[wellyjen]

Thanks 60m seemed like a lot for a 17m pitch, but I guess it all depends for all the reasons you specify particularly, I imagine, the distance from the bottom of the pitch to the next anchors (I'd initially thought 60m was what was needed to rig the traverse and pitch as for the other pitches as it seemed long).

In practice, 55m was enough, but the Peak key holders recommend 60.

 

[wellyjen]

The safety section of the guide has been amended to replace a dead link and make it a bit clearer who to get in touch with regarding dodgy belays, artificial, or natural.
Speaking of natural belays, the symbol used for tree belays has been replaced with a creative commons one that looks more like a tree than the one I drew, which would have embarrassed a pre-school child. All the topos where trees are used to belay, plus the key have been updated.

 

[wellyjen]

Peak Caving Club have added some extra stainless thru bolts to protect a couple of exposed traverses in Snake Mine. Useful additions to the options for rigging here. The two Snake Mine topos have been updated to reflect the changes.
One is over the top of the 140' shaft, for those heading further along the 80' level; another over a blind shaft, approaching the Chain Ladder Shaft and Old Man's Steps. A Y hang is now present at the top of Old Man's Steps, protecting the approach to the scaffold pole belay. There is also now an anchor to tie off the rope at the bottom of the second pitch from the Coe at the 80' level. Thanks to the Club for the information.

 

[wellyjen]

Some changes to the Rigging Guide. Updated Robin's Shaft Mine to show the current rigging of the entrance. Added a topo for Owl Hole in the Dove region. In the complete printed guide, a placeholder page has been inserted for Cussey Pot. Cussey should hopefully be published in the reasonably near future, but will need at least one more visit. In the mean time, the DCA have a topo and gear list, as well as the Eldon survey on their peakdistrictcaving site. A page was added for Owl Hole and since adding pages is a major faff, it was easiest to add a page for a future Cussey topo at the same time.

Thanks to @Spaniel on crack and the Birmingham Student Caving Club for the original Owl Hole topo. It had been on the "to do" list for a while, but it got me to visit and check out the work the DCA anchor folk did on producing the excellent aid climb route up to the Crystal Pallas series. The topo has been adapted to fit in with the Crewe style, but is still largely their work and suitably credited.

 

[Spaniel on crack]

Some changes to the Rigging Guide. Updated Robin's Shaft Mine to show the current rigging of the entrance. Added a topo for Owl Hole in the Dove region. In the complete printed guide, a placeholder page has been inserted for Cussey Pot. Cussey should hopefully be published in the reasonably near future, but will need at least one more visit. In the mean time, the DCA have a topo and gear list, as well as the Eldon survey on their peakdistrictcaving site. A page was added for Owl Hole and since adding pages is a major faff, it was easiest to add a page for a future Cussey topo at the same time.

Thanks to @Spaniel on crack and the Birmingham Student Caving Club for the original Owl Hole topo. It had been on the "to do" list for a while, but it got me to visit and check out the work the DCA anchor folk did on producing the excellent aid climb route up to the Crystal Pallas series. The topo has been adapted to fit in with the Crewe style, but is still largely their work and suitably credited.

I had a great time doing this and will hopfully be the first of many topos from brum

 

[wellyjen]

Made a few minor changes. None of the topos are affected. The index by cave name has been removed from the guide. It wasn't really necessary, as the guide isn't that large and it made updates much more complex and time consuming. Additionally, the Contents, Introduction, Safety and Key pages are now generated from one file each, rather than two and are identical in style to the rest of the guide. Again, this should make updates simpler and quicker.

 

[wellyjen]

The Oxlow Cavern topo has been updated to show the new backup belay stake and the impressive new lid and scaff bar belays fitted yesterday by volunteers from the DCA. Thanks to @Pete K for checking the topo. An extra 5m has been added to the rope length for the entrance pitch to make use of the new backup belay. I've updated the cave rope length data in @aricooperdavis "What Can I Rig" app.
Jen

 

[wellyjen]

Revised the P8 topo to take account of the new resin anchors recently added by The DCA. These replace the iron spike that has been there for decades and allow a choice of hangs. Again, thanks to @Pete K for checking the changes to our topo.
Also added Caves of the Peak District (2010) page numbers to the full printed guide contents page.

 

[wellyjen]

The "What Can I Rig?" app has been updated as well to take account of the slightly longer ropes now needed for the P8 first pitch to make use of the full rig with Y hang backup.

 

[wellyjen]

There is now a topo for Middle Engine Mine, in the hillside of Hassop Common. This is an interesting trip, with stuff to see on several levels off the 50m engine shaft.
Https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging.html#middleengine

 

[wellyjen]

The weather is 'orrible outside today, so I am tucked up indoors working on the rigging guide.
A couple of minor corrections to the Hillocks/Whalf topo in the Rigging Guide.

• The diagram of Whalf climbing shaft showed 45m for the first rope, but the written kit list showed 50m. This contradiction has been in the guide for at least 20 years. The written kit list has been removed.
• The spelling of Monyash has been corrected.

 

[wellyjen]

Monyash is spelt wrong on the Knotlow survey too! Correcting...

 

[wellyjen]

Removed the tackle lists from the topos for Long Rake Mine (Bradwell), the second Nettle Pot topo, Merlin Mine and the Hope Shaft - Level 7 topo. This brings them in to line with the other topos in the guide and removes the risk of contradictions between the two sources of information. Note that there is currently no access to Long Rake Mine. The full printed guide, all 58 pages of it, is now entirely in portrait orientation. Topos made to read in landscape orientation are rotated before the page numbers are added. This makes guide updating easier when adding, or removing pages and prevents printing problems we've seen with some printers where the print driver can have trouble coping with the change in page orientation.

 

[Brains]

Shame Long Rake Bradwell is off limits, it's an awesome place with interesting rigging.

 

[wellyjen]

Shame Long Rake Bradwell is off limits, it's an awesome place with interesting rigging.

I'd like to go back there. I suspect with present day super bright LED lighting its falling to bits nature would scare me even more than on the last visit back in the naughties! I rescued a frog from the bottom. Doubt I did it any favours, as it was below zero, with snow on the ground on the surface.

 

[Brains]

Last time I was there was with Ralph and Ross, not long after bolting it. Not sure but I think Ross put some in way out in the rift above the first big chamber and peeps said they couldn't find them again. Topo shows a rebelay near there but I think that may be a replacement set?