Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!

[Alex]

It would be nice if some of the harder caves were rigged too, though I know by having them pre-rigged makes them a lot easier. However, if Quaking was rigged it would mean I could do it solo, as I can never get anyone to join me!

 

[Mark Wright]

It would be nice if some of the harder caves were rigged too, though I know by having them pre-rigged makes them a lot easier. However, if Quaking was rigged it would mean I could do it solo, as I can never get anyone to join me!

Considering all the stick the BCA and CRO have been casting in the direction of Bear Grylls, is a solo trip down Quaking by a rescue team member really setting the best example?

Mark

 

[Alex]

Not sure I deserved that, what I do in my personal trips is none of your bees wax really. Secondly, if I don't do these trips how can you expect me to rescue you from them?

I would happily not solo it but no one I know will come with me like I said. The main difference is I will not be doing it on TV so no one will follow my example, I am not doing it to show off, I just want to see the bottom of the cave and learn it best I can. I happen to enjoy harder caves and I know my own limits, if I don't like something I can always turn back. Soloing is not for everyone and I must admit it makes me more nervous but it's no more dangerous provided you leave a good call out. In-fact with only 1 person I would wager its safer in some respects.

No one to dislodge rocks on you
Less people = less likely to have an accident (odds)
When I am soloing I am that little bit extra careful, and my risk threshold is a lot lower.

The main thing you loose is someone to go out and get help, so a longer wait, which is why I bring stuff with me to keep warm should that happen, which is why such a trip and carrying all the rope and my personal gear would be a bit of an epic, in that cave.

MODS: You may want to split this topic from Mark Wrights post as it's going off topic.

 

[Simon Wilson]

Well done Alex. A lot of people go solo caving and I think you have a healthy attitude to it and explained it well.

However, if Quaking was pre-rigged by someone else then it wouldn't be a solo trip IMO. It has been done solo by at least two people that I know of.

Perhaps you could offer to rig Quaking as part of the Eurospeleo fringe. And install resin anchors.

 

[Alex]

Not done the resin anchor course I am afraid. But yes it would not be a true solo trip if someone else has rigged it, but still at least I would get to see the bottom that way.

 

[Mark Wright]

Not sure I deserved that, what I do in my personal trips is none of your bees wax really. Secondly, if I don't do these trips how can you expect me to rescue you from them?

I would happily not solo it but no one I know will come with me like I said. The main difference is I will not be doing it on TV so no one will follow my example, I am not doing it to show off, I just want to see the bottom of the cave and learn it best I can. I happen to enjoy harder caves and I know my own limits, if I don't like something I can always turn back. Soloing is not for everyone and I must admit it makes me more nervous but it's no more dangerous provided you leave a good call out. In-fact with only 1 person I would wager its safer in some respects.

No one to dislodge rocks on you
Less people = less likely to have an accident (odds)
When I am soloing I am that little bit extra careful, and my risk threshold is a lot lower.

The main thing you loose is someone to go out and get help, so a longer wait, which is why I bring stuff with me to keep warm should that happen, which is why such a trip and carrying all the rope and my personal gear would be a bit of an epic, in that cave.

MODS: You may want to split this topic from Mark Wrights post as it's going off topic.

Alex, you are right, what you do on your personal trips is none of my business, however this is the Eurospeleo event and I can't imagine any of the organisers or the local CRO teams taking too kindly to people soloing down any of the rigged caves during the event.

You can rest assured you will never have to rescue me from Quaking.

You might not intend your solo trip down Quaking to be on TV but you can be absolutely sure that if you fell down the first pitch on your way in and were left unconscious until the CRO turned up, which is likley to be many hours even if you did have a 'good callout', then that would be on TV and you can be absolutely sure they would make a point, and a very large one at that, of you being a member of the rescue team.

The main thing you loose by soloing is you don't have anyone there to stabilise your condition before they then contact the CRO so all the extra gear you have taken to keep you warm will be of little use if you are unconscious or otherwise incapacitated.

So, considering all the stick the BCA and CRO have been casting in the direction of Bear Grylls, is a solo trip down Quaking by a rescue team member really setting the best example to those who will be specifically attending the Eurospeleo event?

I'm not knocking solo caving, I do it myself occasionally, but there is a time and a place and I would suggest the 2016 Eurospeleo event isn't it.

Mark

 

[topcat]

Oh bugger...I was intending on soloing everything all week, and doing a night shift too 

But then I'm not in CRO so it's fine then???  :tease:

 

[ianball11]

Oh bugger...I was intending on soloing everything all week, and doing a night shift too 

Me too!  If we cross paths then we'll have to pretend not to see each other!

 

[Alex]

I'm not knocking solo caving, I do it myself occasionally, but there is a time and a place and I would suggest the 2016 Eurospeleo event isn't it.

So what you are saying Mike no one is allowed to solo the caves never-mind Quaking which won't be rigged anyway, so that point is mute. So during the week when I have time off but my mates have not I can't go caving according to you, or Ian or Top cat for that matter. I think Euro spelo is the perfect time to solo as its all rigged and you are likely not to be alone either as others would be in the cave, I doubt CRO would have any issues, why would they? After-all soloing is no more dangerous, if you know what you are doing, as for your point on this please see below.

The main thing you loose by soloing is you don't have anyone there to stabilise your condition before they then contact the CRO so all the extra gear you have taken to keep you warm will be of little use if you are unconscious or otherwise incapacitated.

Unfortunately, unless I am caving with a member of the team, I highly doubt who I am with would be able to or have the right gear to stabilise me. I do think this should be changed, more people should know how to do this, but they cant at the moment.

You might not intend your solo trip down Quaking to be on TV but you can be absolutely sure that if you fell down the first pitch on your way in and were left unconscious until the CRO turned up, which is likley to be many hours even if you did have a 'good callout', then that would be on TV and you can be absolutely sure they would make a point, and a very large one at that, of you being a member of the rescue team.

So really your point is I can't go caving (solo at not) at all due to being a member of a rescue team, in which case I should apply for a refund now then? Look I  am a volunteer I don't get paid, I take quite a bit of time out to help people. Monday nights, practices on Sundays, call outs at all time of the day (mainly surface true). But you are saying because of this when I have time free, I am not allowed to go caving in Euro Spelo event especially solo. Well I know what I want to say to that, but if I do I would probably get banned from this forum.

P.s. sorry for any bad grammar, posted in a rush as going to work in 5 minutes