Response to BBC Ultimate Caving...

[axbridgecaver]

Great filming - Gavin has excelled himself again.

Yes some suspect comments but that's television. Remember caving is rarely seen on the box.

For all that missed it a repeat on Sunday 2nd September at 6:00pm on BBC2.

 

[fi]

We thought that, considering the audience it was intended for (your average person on the sofa, not cavers, climbers etc) it was excellent - showed that caving could be extremely exhilarating (nothing like a bit of fear to get the adrenaline pumping) and enjoyable but also very safe.  Gavin, as always, did an excellent job, aided and abetted we noted, by Tom Chapman.  RAB says it was good to see Kate Humble showing what she was capable of doing without the wittering side-kick from Spring Watch butting in all the time.

 

[Hughie]

without the wittering side-kick from Spring Watch butting in all the time.

Weird - that's what I thought as well!

 

[cap n chris]

I don't think it was meant simply as an advert for caving.

Judging by the correspondence in this forum (link below) if it was an advert for caving it didn't meet with much success!

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=430767

 

[Ship-badger]

I'm with Andy Sparrow on this one. Caving is dramatic enough; you don't need to make it more exciting with overlong camera shots in a three foot sump, and rubbish about crawling for over an hour where most people would take about ten minutes. We've all seen plenty of people have real difficulty with Sump 1 as it is, so why make it appear so much worse.

However, it is always easy to see the stupidity of any programme when you know something of the subject matter. The series was obviously aimed at the general public, most of whom have no intention of ever going underground; and judging by the comments on the "pistonheads" forum that Cap'n gave us the link to, most of them will certainly not now.

So bravo BBC; the less people there are underground the better eh? The public must be protected from doing silly things. Now if only the programme producers could make something that put the public off drug-taking or drinking themselves stupid!

 

[potholer]

Judging from comments in one forum of people with some other interest is maybe extrapolating a bit much.
In any case, the majority of people would likely not go caving whatever TV programmes were broadcast.
At best, there's a small fraction of people who are potential cavers, and even if a goal is to increase caver numbers, the test is whether a programme makes more of those people think of caving who might otherwise not have thought of it than it puts off people who were already wondering about it.
Putting off someone who was only ever likely to sit on a couch pointing at a TV with crisp-encrusted fingers saying 'I'd never do that' isn't necessarily much of a loss.

Also, if the programme is a viewing success from the BBC's point of view, it might help the next caving programme get made, the way the success of the Planet Earth cave programme seemed to set off a flurry of interest from other programme makers.

 

[damian]

I was nearly very unhappy when, at seven o'clock on Friday evening, we had a power cut .... fortunately it came back on again forty minutes later!

Overall I was impressed and am sure the majority non-caver audience will have been very imrpessed indeed. I am a non caver and kayaker and found I empathised with the presenters much more and, therefore, enjoyed them more from that point of view.

I agree with everyone else that the filiming was superb and the choice of caves was probably a good one (although I am convinced Main Shaft would have been better than Titan from both a visually stunning and scary point of view).

What I found a real shame was that they seemed to have too little time for 4 caves and, therefore, were forced to spend all their time focusing on one major (scary) aspect in each cave ... Cheese Press in Long Churn, Sump in Swildon's, Long Crawl in DYO and the pitch in Speedwell-Titan. The result was that the viewer received a very skewed impression of what caving is like. I understand why they did it, but I'm not sure it was right to do it.

Despite all this, though, I'm not sure it will have put off any potential newbies who are likely to be taken by caving as a sport. Let's face it, if the idea of a crawl and a squeeze put you off, you're probably not going to take to caving in a big way beyond the first few trips anyway. To my mind anything showing caving in a quality, prime-time format (as this was) must be good for the sport. Well done BBC, Gavin and everyone involved!

Finally, my Dad (who is also a caver) agrees pretty much with Andy Sparrow. He thinks it was by far the least good of the three in the series.

 

[cap n chris]

Judging from comments in one forum of people with some other interest is maybe extrapolating a bit much.
In any case, the majority of people would likely not go caving whatever TV programmes were broadcast.
....

Putting off someone who was only ever likely to sit on a couch pointing at a TV with crisp-encrusted fingers saying 'I'd never do that' isn't necessarily much of a loss.

Also, if the programme is a viewing success from the BBC's point of view, it might help the next caving programme get made, the way the success of the Planet Earth cave programme seemed to set off a flurry of interest from other programme makers.

Agree.

But also think that the programme will generate interest in caving, if by no other route than by resulting in it being a topic of conversation. I don't believe clubs will find themselves needing to build extensions to their stately pleasure-domes, however.

 

[damian]

In case anyone else isn't aware, the third in the series "Ultimate White Water" was shown last Tuesday (not sure why!)
It is being repeated tonight at 7:00 and, according to my Dad, is the best of the three.

 

[ianball11]

I have just been shopping in Kendal, and in one of the shops I overheard the shop assistant (age about 16?) telling the shop owner how good Ultimate Caving was. He was full of enthusiasm about caving, thought the show was brilliant, and wants to try caving as soon as possible.

A possible recruit for Kendal CC?

A success in one respect then.

I found that the best piece of telly I've seen for a long time. Bravo BBC and well done Kate and the other guy.
Ian B.

 

[cap n chris]

Kate and the other guy.

  You mean Kate's actually a man?

 

[Andy Sparrow]

I don't think it was meant simply as an advert for caving.

Judging by the correspondence in this forum (link below) if it was an advert for caving it didn't meet with much success!

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=430767

And here is a sample, from that forum, of the enthusiam generated for caving by 'Ultimate Caving':

But what is the point? Why would you want to crawl along a dark hole, scraping your hands and elbows, safe in the knowledge that you any mishap or rockfall could crush or choke you to death? Is there a pool full of beautiful naked women at the end? Some wondrous lost treasure? What?

Completely pointless waste of time. Anyone who gets stuck there should be left there, because they deserve to die for being so stupid, and because they will act as a barrier to future idiots.

I rest my case.

 

[Stu]

About two months ago myself and my partners daughter were out walking around some local reservoirs. The path runs over the dam wall upon which there is a knee high one metre wide wall running the length of the dam. On the waterside it's a very shallow angle to the water. The water was down about five metres depth so probably about 15 metres from the wall I described above. We decide to be a little daring and "walked on the wall"! We had much fun (small things amuse etc.) To our dismay a passing local, walking her dog, decided to give us one hell of a mouthful... I can swear but this old dear! Apparently the wall is to stop people falling into the water - I don't think my thoughts about it being there to keep the water in, went down too well.


My point.... there will always be those who view any person whose actions appear to put their lives at risk and those who have to rescue them, as idiots who deserve to rot. They'll never change. The person you quote sounds like such a person... probably sat at home, over weight, puffing on a fag, after a night on the beer (hey that's a few cavers I know!!). Nothing could wake them from their drab, dreary soulless life. All the non cavers I've spoken to could see, for once what the charm was. They may never do it; but the BBC weren't supposed to be recruiting. 

But what is the point? Why would you want to crawl along a dark hole, scraping your hands and elbows, safe in the knowledge that you any mishap or rockfall could crush or choke you to death? Is there a pool full of beautiful naked women at the end? Some wondrous lost treasure? What?

They'll never get it Andy. Some people won't. And as we all know an empty vessel makes most sound.

 

[potholer]

And here is a sample, from that forum, of the enthusiam generated for caving by 'Ultimate Caving':

But what is the point? Why would you want to crawl along a dark hole, scraping your hands and elbows, safe in the knowledge that you any mishap or rockfall could crush or choke you to death? Is there a pool full of beautiful naked women at the end? Some wondrous lost treasure? What?

Completely pointless waste of time. Anyone who gets stuck there should be left there, because they deserve to die for being so stupid, and because they will act as a barrier to future idiots.

I rest my case.

So no-one had that kind opinion before, and everyone drew the same conclusion from the programme?

Do you think the kind of person that wrote that comment was previously likely to have been open-minded?

You think you could do a programme/advert for caving which wouldn't end up with some people saying 'I could never do that', and which people would bother watching?

 

[graham]

That's from "PistonHeads" who I guess are something to do with cars or motorsport. Cars! nasty smelly polluting things, if I didn't need one to get out into the clean open countryside & near my precious caves, I'd never have one & those bloody idiots that race 'em over by Tynings Farm, screaming round, making a helluva din & disturbing the peace. I'd ban 'em if I could, vandals.

Q.E.D.

 

[grand-moff]

After a few mates at work watched the programme (which I told them to) some of them have expressed an intrest in giving it a try and asked if I will take them, the rest on the other hand said F*** that for a game of soldiers, my point is its not everyones cup of tea and it never will be no mater how much you publicize it.

What the BBC should have done however is give at the end a little bit of info of how someone could get into it if they so wished

 

[pete h]

That's from "PistonHeads" who I guess are something to do with cars or motorsport. Cars! nasty smelly polluting things, if I didn't need one to get out into the clean open countryside & near my precious caves, I'd never have one & those bloody idiots that race 'em over by Tynings Farm, screaming round, making a helluva din & disturbing the peace. I'd ban 'em if I could, vandals.

Q.E.D.

Graham sell your car now you dont need it to get to Mendip the UBSS and most of the old explorers cycled there.
You never know after a bit you might fit into a few more caves.

 

[graham]

Piss off Hann.  :ras: 

 

[pete h]

Piss off Hann.  :ras: 

Thanks Graham and i thought you were a gentleman.  :ras: must be your age.

 

[potholer]

At first, I did think they could have put some info at the end, as on the climbing one, but even there, about all they said was 'there are people who can take you climbing'.

In reality, these days, most people could just Google 'caving' and start getting some reasonable hits pretty easily, so maybe it's less important than it might once have been to have any particular details made explicit.