Returning to caving

[2xw]

Yeah I don't think a 50% accuracy makes the test useless. And I wonder how much that accuracy really drops with home use (it's not hard and anyone who is positive will have tons of the stuff knocking about)

I'm surprised the hospital couldn't do a PCR test, they should take less than 3 hrs

 

[mikem]

Sounds like they did do a PCR, just failed to keep patient informed...

 

[pwhole]

I assumed that it must be PCR, just wasn't sure how fast they really can do them if they have to. I also assume that they will be doing dozens of tests a day on patients, and informing them all of a negative result is rather time-consuming. I also wasn't in my home town, which certainly complicated matters for all of us!

 

[alastairgott]

I've been going caving with anyone in my club that will say yes! If no one says yes then I'll go solo 'digging' or prospecting in my nearest limestone spot, which I'm certain will pay dividends.

Had a trip to Giants as a group of five on Saturday which was only 4 households. Giants never gets boring, and if it were the last trip I did, I would be a happy man!

 

[Paul Marvin]

The FDA in the US recently announced that lateral flow tests should literally be thrown in the bin, and they wouldn't approve or support their use:

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/stop-using-innova-sars-cov-2-antigen-rapid-qualitative-test-fda-safety-communication

Part of the problem is with the self-testing of LF - if folks don't do their swab properly, or follow the instructions to the letter, it won't be accurate. Given that many folks find that sort of thing uncomfortable or distasteful at the best of times, and not wanting a positive result is invariably in most people's minds, the chances of a half-hearted negative result are very high. A friend of mine is a schoolteacher and they all have LF tests every three days, but they've still had positive cases come in via pupils or parents and staff had to self-isolate. I recently spent a week in hospital, and had three Covid tests when I was in, two days apart. The first was a pre-op test, 12 hours before, but I have no idea whether it was PCR or LF - ideally I was meant to be negative for the op, but a PCR can't be done that quickly - but they operated. Anyway, I didn't see that first negative result on paper (or verbally) until four days later, the day before discharge. So if the other two tests were PCR, I wouldn't have got the results until last week. No-one's rung or texted me since, so I have to assume they were all negative. But I was very confident they'd done me properly as a nurse did all the swabbing, and she went all the way in.

Exactly !!    Unless you are on the point of vomiting you aint deep enough a little wipe around the external nostril doesn't cut it .

 

[tobyk]

I assumed that it must be PCR, just wasn't sure how fast they really can do them if they have to. I also assume that they will be doing dozens of tests a day on patients, and informing them all of a negative result is rather time-consuming. I also wasn't in my home town, which certainly complicated matters for all of us!

I work in hospital pathology in Haematology and Transfusion, but have to perform urgent covid testing out of hours when the Micro lot arn?t in. All hospital covid testing is PCR, but there are different ways of testing. Not including sample prep, transfer time to the lab etc the general on mass testing takes about 4 hours per test and costs about ?7. The rapid PCR testing I perform takes about 1 hour, and is done on urgent cases (A&E, pre-ops etc)?costs ?90 per test though!

 

[pwhole]

That must have been mine then, as I was operated on within 12 hours of admission - luckily. Though at ?90 I feel somewhat guilty, but I guess it's much cheaper than the whole surgical team having to self-isolate. And shows it is worth following the protocols - hands, face, space!

 

[Fulk]

Though at ?90 I feel somewhat guilty,

But compared with the cost of the operation, ?90 was probably pretty trivia (?)l.

 

[pwhole]

Indeed. I shudder to think how much I've cost them (us) overall. I'm also very aware how fortunate I was to be able to ring 999 in a strange city, and be in an emergency bed in two hours - and then stay for a week. In a month or two those 'spare' beds may no longer be available.

 

[Fulk]

I shudder to think how much I've cost them (us) overall.

Quite; I had open-heart surgery a few years ago, which must have set 'us' back several score thousand pounds (good job I wasn't in the States).

 

[Paul Marvin]

I shudder to think how much I've cost them (us) overall.

Quite; I had open-heart surgery a few years ago, which must have set 'us' back several score thousand pounds (good job I wasn't in the States).

All hail the NHS and all that work there  :bow:  and that means ALL they all have a important role to play, a customer of mine once said " Im only a cleaner " I quickly reminded her if it wast for her the rest would stop very quick, I asked her not to put herself down anymore !    :halo:

 

[sinker]

I'm also very aware how fortunate I was to be able to ring 999 in a strange city, and be in an emergency bed in two hours - and then stay for a week.

Totally agree.
I was admitted with Leptospirosis three weeks ago.
Referred at 10am by online out of hours GP, consultant rang me at 11.30, I went in at 1.30pm, all the tests and x-ray etc.
In and out in 48 hours, job done. 

 

[darren]

Sometimes it makes you wonder how the French and Germans work with a different system, oh and Spain.

Not saying the NHS is bad, but other viable systems do seem to exist. If the NHS is so superior why haven't other European countries copied it?

 

[Speleofish]

I think you'd be slightly foolish to claim the NHS is better than the French or German systems. Most analyses suggest the French system is the best in the world. The German system can be outstanding (if you go to a Hochshule - ie university hospital) but some of the small Krankenhausen are less impressive. Both are far better resourced than the NHS (so have more beds and shorter/negligible waiting times) and both, particularly the Germans, offer really good rehabilitation which is something the NHS falls down on.

In favour of the NHS, it's one of the most cost-effective systems in the developed world (though this depends on running close to 100% occupancy which makes pandemics difficult) and care is probably more consistent between hospitals than in other hospitals. Since we've started to centralise some specialist services that were previously offered everywhere (trauma, vascular surgery etc) standards have risen significantly. However, resources were constrained even before Covid, made worse by the shortage of nursing and residential home care and the lack of facilities to deal with elderly patients with complex needs (so they ended up stuck in hospitals, which are fundamentally unsuited to care for them). 

In reality, increasing the NHS and social care budgets to overcome their many shortfalls would probably be less expensive overall than moving to a mixed private/public, insurance based system. The big problem with any private system of medicine is that the more procedures you undertake, the greater the income. This influences both doctors and management, can lead to inappropriate or excessive treatment and is very hard to police.

 

[Paul Marvin]

Sometimes it makes you wonder how the French and Germans work with a different system, oh and Spain.

Not saying the NHS is bad, but other viable systems do seem to exist. If the NHS is so superior why haven't other European countries copied it?

I lived in Germany for 4 years and trust me its not a patch on the NHS there waits ect and shortages of trained staff are just as bad if not worse than here

 

[Speleofish]

Minor edit. Should read Care is probably more consistent between hospitals than in other countries

 

[Paul Marvin]

Minor edit. Should read Care is probably more consistent between hospitals than in other countries

That's what it says  :doubt:

 

[Paul Marvin]

Sometimes it makes you wonder how the French and Germans work with a different system, oh and Spain.

Not saying the NHS is bad, but other viable systems do seem to exist. If the NHS is so superior why haven't other European countries copied it?

There are a lot of things in Germany that dont " Qualify " for free treatment and care . Cant speak for France as I dont know , but what I do know as I have a friend over there in France is they pay a LOT more tax than we do to cover there care system.

 

[darren]

Could you give us a couple of examples of the "lots of things"?

Who decides n the UK what is covered?

 

[mikem]

Emergency treatment gets priority (& is generally excellent), other procedures are a bit more pot luck as to how long it will take to get done.