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robust flashguns

shinwell

New member
For some time I've been using second-hand Metz 45 flashguns, plus either home-built Gibson or bought Firefly units taped onto them, transported in a drybag inside a small tacklesack.  I'm getting increasingly frustrated with this arrangement for a number of reasons:

- The flashguns just aren't robust enough.  The main problem is the battery compartments which are flimsy and prone to coming loose.  They often fail to contact properly during use.  Not to mention broken diffusers, parts rattling around inside, etc.  Old Nissin hammerheads have better battery compartments, but are hard to come by.

- The flashguns are huge.  In a small Beast bag I can just about fit three plus a Gorillapod, but it's a hassle getting them in and out, and the bag won't really close properly.

- Transport in a drybag isn't really sufficient when the whole lot might get submersed.  I lost several in a cave last year when this happened, and the bag leaked.

- There are issues not specific to these flashguns such as the lack of waterproofing, which is bad for making them last, and potentially hazardous to an operator.  It also prohibits situations where you might want to put a flash underwater.

- The slave units aren't very reliable - another one died on me last week in Matienzo out of the blue for example; and there are a surprising number of times when they just don't trigger - and the Firefly 2 units in particular aren't waterproofed at all when you buy them.  (It would also be nice if they weren't triggered so easily by a Scurion.)

I'm starting to wonder what a better solution might be to get high-power, robust, waterproof flashguns that work reliably every time.  The ideal would seem to be something like dismantling a Metz 45 and encasing it in a strong fully-waterproof box, along with a slave unit, and some straightforward way of charging it (possibly without even opening it).  I would imagine the box shouldn't need to be very big.  Has anyone built and used anything like that?  I'm wary due to the potential hazards during development, although I could probably find someone more competent with such things than I to help mitigate this.

And to be honest, given the age we live in, I wonder if going to such lengths it would be worth just designing a wireless transmission system that eliminates the possibility of caplamps triggering the flashes.

Another solution would be to invest in more expensive but smaller flashguns, such as the newer Nissin models for example, and wrap them up somehow (easier than wrapping a hammerhead) before transporting them all together in a Peli case.  This solves the size and slave unit problems.  The cost would be excessive, though, and it isn't clear to me how long they might last.  There is also the problem of lack of power -- the most powerful Nissin/Nikon/Canon models are I think around up to a full stop less bright than the Metz 45 range -- and moreover, they still won't have any significant amount of waterproofing nor padding.  I guess you could try to find a waterproof box in which one of these will fit, which might actually be the best all-round solution here, though costly.

Any other clever ideas? :)
 

Alex

Well-known member
Its the lack of these decent flashguns why I don't take up cave photograpthy properly and attempt any shots I do, do with long exposure shots. Having to keep the camera very still for 10 seconds.
 

jarvist

New member
I use cheaper/weaker flash units at around guide 30 (i.e. half the output of your Metz).
However, my Vivitar 283s seem extremely durable. Every ~20 trips or so they require a partial disassembly to clean the mud out of the clicker-hinge which otherwise slowly seizes making battery changing difficult (and if you forget to put the two little white bits of nylon back... the hinge no longer clicks and doesn't hold to well when using the flash as a bounce on top of a SLR above ground, but you can freely turn it!). The battery packs are great - with the batteries held securely in a removable clip. The Vivitars are a rather useless shape for transportation however. They were also made over a large number of years, and produce anything from 5-600v at the hotshoe depending on particular internals.

Bemoaning this lack of easy transportation, Hugh Penney put me on to the Sunpak range of flashes. These seem much more delicate and have the usual rubbish hinge door trying to hold back 4 AAs, but have the benefit of some being an unusually compact 92x92x35mm (if prepared to chop off the pivoting hotshoe and use the x-sync cable). I've used these with great success on wet trips ensconced in one of those cheap generic 'small' waterproof peli-case rip offs. I found I was typically loosing 1/2 to a full stop of light, mainly due to mud staining the outside of the peli boxes where they'd been roughened by previous abuse. They're also cheap as chips 2nd hand.

As to your firefly slaves getting triggered by a cave lamp... well, get a light that doesn't unnecessarily pulse width modulate at medium power levels!
 

shinwell

New member
I'm surprised there weren't more ideas on this subject; I would have thought it was a fairly common problem.  So let me ask a different question: for those of you who do use high-power flash units or bulbs, what varieties do you find work well?
 

CrocJon

New member
shinwell

I can add no experience unfortunately, but just wanted to reinforce your request for opinions as I am just starting to toy with the idea of taking my dslr underground, and am currently reading through all the 'flash' topics to try and weigh up my options.

Jon
 

footleg

New member
shinwell said:
I'm surprised there weren't more ideas on this subject; I would have thought it was a fairly common problem.  So let me ask a different question: for those of you who do use high-power flash units or bulbs, what varieties do you find work well?

I think the problem is that there isn't an affordable robust high power flashgun. Especially when you need 3 or more of them.

I have a number of Metz45 models. The budget CT1 models tend to be a bit temperamental with my firefly slaves, and recharge times are slow. The top end CT5 models behave much better and recharge much faster but cost more 2nd hand. Both have only a full power manual mode, which is way too bright for close up work. I also have a CT3 model which has 1/2 and 1/4 power manual modes. I have found all these Metz guns suffer from intermittent contact problems with the trigger cables. I think the wire they use is not robust enough for the abuse they get in the cave and suffers from internal breaks. So I end up having to wiggle all the leads until they start working and then not dare touch them again for the shot in case they stop working again. Another big annoyance is that all the different models have different sockets for the trigger leads, so you can't switch leads between them. They all suffer from contact problems with the battery holder not contacting with the  flash contacts and you have to smack them to get them to work. You also have to modify the battery holders to work with NiMH AA cells because otherwise you can damage the flash as it takes too much charging current from them using the battery holders designed for alkaline cells.

I have since bought several Sunpak 3600 hammer head flashes which come up cheaper on ebay and are about a stop less bright. But they have manual power settings from full power, 1/2, 1/4, ... down to 1/64 so you can use them close up no problem. They work fine off NiMH AA cells and I do not suffer any battery holder contact problems. But the sync leads use a very weak miniature jack plug which get bent and broken underground. So I have opened all mine up and soldered some better cable directly through the jack socket with audio phone sockets on the other end (which I use for all my slave units so I can swap any slave onto any flash). This eliminates most of the issues, but they still are prone to sometimes going into a continuous charge/trigger/charge/trigger cycle with the firefly attached. You just have to turn them off and on again to stop it. But when you have 3 or more flashes set up with slaves you cannot tell which one is playing up!

All these flashes have high flash contact voltages, so cannot be plugged directly onto a hotshoe. You need additional (expensive) hotshoe adaptors specific to your camera model to connect them to the hotshoe. And that introduces even more possible contact problems. I trigger mine using a radio trigger from the camera hotshoe. I have fitted my radio trigger with an audio phone plug too like all my firefly slaves. So I can fit any slave onto any flash.
 

Rob

Well-known member
I agree with Footleg in that there are no cheap + tough flashguns available. Diving ones are the best, but VERY expensive!

As previously mentioned, radio slaves get round your Scurion issue. These RF602's have very good reviews online:
rf602.jpg

http://www.amazon.co.uk/RF-602-Wireless-control-Trigger-Receivers/dp/B002SFTN80

As for flash guns, i used to use 2nd hand Vivitars. They are pretty good but can be hard to come by and i'm always dubious about the power settings. I now use a YN460ii, basically a cheap Speedlite, and am very impressed. Guide #38, quite well built, nice and compact, and @ ?40 new they are pretty reasonable. Also they have a built in optical slave, which could be useful if everything else fails...
yn460_01_enl.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157622925807604/
 

Burt

New member
Try this (it's worked for me)-
get a watertight sealed box from a kitchen supplier - the kind they flog for keeping / freezing soup, chili etc in with snap closures on the sides. Cut up an old karrimat and custom make padding to suit but so the flash head can but up against the transparent side. Slave units will work through the transparent box; the only minor hassle is turning on / off the flash, just do it away from mud & water.

Worth a go as the boxes are only a couple of quid each!
 
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