Smoking underground

[Brains]

Having just re read the original post, it may more to the point to discuss friction, lubrication and treatment of carpet cave burns... :-[
Is KY more friendly than vaseline, where does hydraulic fluid fit in the question? Mineral or vegetable oil? Detergents?! How will this effect caving gear.... the caves.

 

[Dep]

This is a sensitive subject. Those who take extreme stances are probably only prolonging the issue.

Smoking was once accepted without question. So was spitting and having a piss in the street.

Maybe smoking will one day be just another filthy habit that people do out of sight and away from others.

Personally I would like that day to come sooner rather than later. But I am not going to lecture people about it - just let 'nature' take its course.

Fair point. I didn't realise pissing in the street was illegal - explains the funny looks my neighbours give me!

But seriously, I smoke but never underground. I don't like the lingering smell or dog-ends or ash left on the floor.
99% of those I cave with are non-smokers ~ 15% are ex-smokers.

I find that when I am surrounded by non-smokers I don't really feel the need and respect their desire for clean air - I would not smoke around them in a confined space - but with blue-sky above I would give a terse response to anyone who commented adversely.

Brains psychological comment about not telling yourself that you are giving up is a very good point.
The writing is definitely on the wall for this habit - and a good thing too.

It should also be noted that caving (beyond daylight penetration limits) is not natural - 90% of humans are scared shitless in dark wet scary places underground - that isn't them being wimps - it's a natural atavistic urge evolved to keep us alive.

Nicotine is a frighteningly addictive drug - flippant comments about giving up are meaningless from anyone who has never been addicted as they cannot comprehend it - only those who have done it can really understand.

I have got over the first hurdle and realised that I don't want to do it anymore - slowly slowly I am reducing the amount I smoke - one day I won't, but I have no plans to scare myself by introducing a zero-day as I will always find reasons not to commit myself - such is the nature of an addiction.

Nicotine patches are not the answer either - you just swap one habt for another - and continue to pour money into other people's pockets. But if a magic pill could be invented that would make smoking so unpalatable that you could not bring yourself to so it I would take it without question.

Education and knee-jerk propaganda aren't the answer either, I am well aware of the arguments as too are most smokers - but it holds no sway - as I said it's an addiction that overrides reason.

 

[Brains]

Was I the only smoker who watched anti smoking ads - arterys full of gunk being squeezed out in the autopsy, cancers etc and think - oh right - smoking - and light up? They certainley encouraged me, but not in a "up yours" way, more a subliminal see smoke/ want to smoke kind of way?

 

[Walrus]

My mum is dying at the moment - she has cancer, emphasemia and some fungus stuff in her lungs brought on by smoking. Just as Brains & Dep say the shock factor alone is not enough - nicotine is a very addictive substance. Just wanting to give it up is not always enough - with me its taking time, too. But I'll get there when I'm good and ready, slowly but surely. Beating me up over it is really not gonna help (possibly cuz I'm stubborn too!)

 

[Jagman]

Grab your fag and put it out or punch you in the gob. Or both. Or neither. Depending on how big you are.

Oh yes? 

I like smoking, many of the places I go have always been smoked in and I will continue the tradition. I will try to consider my companions but many of them smoke and non have ever objected.

Besides its an important safety aid, when your cigarette goes out you know you may have a blackdamp problem, if the flame suddenly leaps up to three feet all you can be sure you have just entered a bit off firedamp, if everything suddenly becomes very warm and bright and you can smell burning you have probably hit a really significant patch of firedamp. Safety first

Sorry to hear that Walrus

 

[cap n chris]

I like smoking, many of the places I go have always been smoked in and I will continue the tradition. I will try to consider my companions but many of them smoke and non have ever objected.

Besides its an important safety aid, when your cigarette goes out you know you may have a blackdamp problem, if the flame suddenly leaps up to three feet all you can be sure you have just entered a bit off firedamp, if everything suddenly becomes very warm and bright and you can smell burning you have probably hit a really significant patch of firedamp. Safety first

Your consideration for other people is not without its own hazards, then.

 

[Armchair]

It's a mucky habit but, leaving aside the possibility that lung cancer in cavers is related to exposure to radon, it's worth remembering that one of the nastiest smells one can encounter underground is that of bigotry.

 

[graham]

It's a mucky habit but, leaving aside the possibility that lung cancer in cavers is related to exposure to radon, it's worth remembering that one of the nastiest smells one can encounter underground is that of bigotry.

 

[Jagman]

It's a mucky habit but, leaving aside the possibility that lung cancer in cavers is related to exposure to radon, it's worth remembering that one of the nastiest smells one can encounter underground is that of bigotry.

  sadly seems to be quite common

 

[wormster]

I've been biting my tonge on this one, now its time to let go:

natural NOWAY destroys the environment. (bats etc)

manmade under 400 years, well the miners that made it (at least in non hazardous areas) did so why can't I??
its a bit like stopping in box and not having a nammet and drink with them

3&1/2 pints at the Quarrymans* fills my hydration bladder and lasts a trip of 4-5 hours U/G with 6-8 folks.

*afterall why is it called THE QUARRYMANS

My reasoning if they did why can't I?

(hides behind sofa & awaits flaming)

 

[kay]

I find that when I am surrounded by non-smokers I don't really feel the need and respect their desire for clean air - I would not smoke around them in a confined space - but with blue-sky above I would give a terse response to anyone who commented adversely.

It's your right, so I wouldn't comment to you. But I hate it when I'm wandering along enjoying the fresh air outside, then I begin to catch up with someone in front and run into the cigarette smoke that is trailing back behind them.

But I can't imagine it's a health hazard outside, so it is just one of those things that other people do that annoy me, just as lots of the things I do probably annoy other people.

 

[cap n chris]

My reasoning if they did why can't I?

There are many things which people used to do but which they are no longer allowed to do because it's illegal and would probably end up with them getting in trouble with the law, fined, imprisoned etc.. It's nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with good sense, reasonable respect and best practice.

 

[Dep]

It's a mucky habit but, leaving aside the possibility that lung cancer in cavers is related to exposure to radon, it's worth remembering that one of the nastiest smells one can encounter underground is that of bigotry.

 

 

[Dep]

...
(possibly cuz I'm stubborn too!)

Me too, and you're right, it doesn't help. I'm even stubborn against my own inner-reasoning!
I need to redirect my stubborness to make me not do it!

 

[Hughie]

...
(possibly cuz I'm stubborn too!)

Me too, and you're right, it doesn't help. I'm even stubborn against my own inner-reasoning!
I need to redirect my stubborness to make me not do it!

Amen to that!

 

[whitelackington]

This is a sensitive subject. Those who take extreme stances are probably only prolonging the issue.

Smoking was once accepted without question. So was spitting and having a piss in the street.

Maybe smoking will one day be just another filthy habit that people do out of sight and away from others.

Personally I would like that day to come sooner rather than later. But I am not going to lecture people about it - just let 'nature' take its course.

Fair point. I didn't realise pissing in the street was illegal - explains the funny looks my neighbours give me!

But seriously, I smoke but never underground. I don't like the lingering smell or dog-ends or ash left on the floor.
99% of those I cave with are non-smokers ~ 15% are ex-smokers.

I find that when I am surrounded by non-smokers I don't really feel the need and respect their desire for clean air - I would not smoke around them in a confined space - but with blue-sky above I would give a terse response to anyone who commented adversely.

Brains psychological comment about not telling yourself that you are giving up is a very good point.
The writing is definitely on the wall for this habit - and a good thing too.

It should also be noted that caving (beyond daylight penetration limits) is not natural - 90% of humans are scared shitless in dark wet scary places underground - that isn't them being wimps - it's a natural atavistic urge evolved to keep us alive.

Nicotine is a frighteningly addictive drug - flippant comments about giving up are meaningless from anyone who has never been addicted as they cannot comprehend it - only those who have done it can really understand.

I have got over the first hurdle and realised that I don't want to do it anymore - slowly slowly I am reducing the amount I smoke - one day I won't, but I have no plans to scare myself by introducing a zero-day as I will always find reasons not to commit myself - such is the nature of an addiction.

Nicotine patches are not the answer either - you just swap one habt for another - and continue to pour money into other people's pockets. But if a magic pill could be invented that would make smoking so unpalatable that you could not bring yourself to so it I would take it without question.

Education and knee-jerk propaganda aren't the answer either, I am well aware of the arguments as too are most smokers - but it holds no sway - as I said it's an addiction that overrides reason.

On varrious travels to France over the years ( now I know they are foriegners) but we have seen them smoking
Spitting
pissing in the street
and once when i was on a train making my way from an abortive grape picking holiday near Bordeaux, on a train, we, my bird & I had to stand on the train as so full , I had my arm up resting against the window, as we had been sleeping rough for weeks, this must have beeen a particularly unpleasant experience for the nice young French woman standing next to me
but to our "utter horror", in the middle of a cabbage field was this old bloke exploding with shit
My bird and I both pointed and said something like "Dirty French Barstead",
The Frenchies, of course also looked (it was a boring train journey, across a particularly flat bit of France) they all looked suitable shocked but I spect that was for us English, as in those days it was probably normal behaviour for Frenchman.
Anyway ,I don't think the poor old sod taken short was actually smoking @ the time, so they are gradually becoming more civillized!

 

[Johnny]

It's a mucky habit but, leaving aside the possibility that lung cancer in cavers is related to exposure to radon, it's worth remembering that one of the nastiest smells one can encounter underground is that of bigotry.

Oh dear oh dear, looks like the armchair cavers and weekend warriors have found something to spout off about!

Anybody who thinks that, because I smoke or am smoking, they can be rude, abusive or violent towards me runs the risk of getting a crowbar jammed so far up thier backside they will be able to lever boulders with thier teeth!

 

[Peter Burgess]

Anybody who thinks that, because I smoke or am smoking, they can be rude, abusive or violent towards me runs the risk of getting a crowbar jammed so far up thier backside they will be able to lever boulders with thier teeth!

Now where have I recently read something  very much like this? A plague on both your houses.  Why do smoking discussions always descend to playground bickering? Pathetic.

 

[graham]

Anybody who thinks that, because I smoke or am smoking, they can be rude, abusive or violent towards me runs the risk of getting a crowbar jammed so far up thier backside they will be able to lever boulders with thier teeth!

is that because you are not satisfied simply with assaulting their lungs?  :-\

 

[badger]

somethings considered social 50 years ago are now considered anti social

smoking in caves is anti social, and shows a total lack of respect for fellow cavers

if those who wish to smoke outside/own homes that is your right, although I do agree with kay, however smokers should respect the majority and show respect underground