Statutory Licensing of Welsh Club Huts

[radddogg]

Hi

I've looked across the forums and haven't come across this topic yet so apologies if it's a duplication. Have any clubs with club huts come across the Welsh government consultation on statutory licensing of all visitor accommodation?

The scheme would require visitor accommodation providers to obtain an operating licence for the venue. The licence would come at a cost and would require evidence of meeting certain standards, such as confirmation of insurance, fire risk assessment and gas safety certificate. Further evidence could include confirmation of appropriate planning permission being in place, proof of electrical safety, proof of water safety, (if private supply) and/or Food Hygiene rating (if serving food)).

The implications for operators of club huts could be significant, given the rustic nature and volunteer operation of climbing huts, and also the modest income they generate as assets of non-profit organisations. I would urge any club members to forward this information to their committee/hut wardens ASAP.

The closure date for responses to the consultation is next Friday 17th March.

Statutory licensing scheme for all visitor accommodation providers in Wales | GOV.WALES

We are seeking your views in this consultation on establishing a statutory licensing scheme for all visitor accommodation providers in Wales.

www.gov.wales

Regards

Rob Powell

Secretary

Lancashire Climbing & Caving Club

 

[Bob Mehew]

An interesting development. I think the key concern will be meeting the demands of the proposed scheme which are outlined on on page 17 of the consultation document and mostly covered in you summary. However, I suspect many of those demands should already be being meet by the club under pre-existing legislation. So I am doubtful if a protest will get very far. Have you contacted the Mountain Bothy Association who have a number of bothies in Wales. I guess they will be interested and cover the extreme end of accommodation that perhaps a few caving clubs might be offering (ie nothing other than a roof). Sorry but I am not in a condition to provide much further help.

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks for flagging this up radddogg and thanks for those excellent suggestions Bob.

 

[radddogg]

An interesting development. I think the key concern will be meeting the demands of the proposed scheme which are outlined on on page 17 of the consultation document and mostly covered in you summary. However, I suspect many of those demands should already be being meet by the club under pre-existing legislation. So I am doubtful if a protest will get very far. Have you contacted the Mountain Bothy Association who have a number of bothies in Wales. I guess they will be interested and cover the extreme end of accommodation that perhaps a few caving clubs might be offering (ie nothing other than a roof). Sorry but I am not in a condition to provide much further help.

Yes, I'm sure many of the obligations are already being met under existing compliance obligations but there may be some real impacts depending on how the scheme is implemented. I think some considered responses to questions 8 and 9 might highlight non-profit outdoor groups as potentially being considered out of scope.

 

[LadyMud]

It looks as if this legislation is primarily to control the proliferation of Airbnb lets (and holiday cottages) in certain areas. But obviously there's a danger that it will draw in club huts.

However, this is an interesting statement (p14-15):
"From a point of fairness and to ensure visitor safety, our view is that all commercially let visitor accommodation should be within scope . . "

So the obvious question is: are club huts "commercially-let visitor accommodation"? Surely that implies a profit?

I can't see an issue when club members stay in their own club hut. But what about guests? Could the overnight charge include temporary membership of the host club? Would that solve the problem?

 

[radddogg]

It looks as if this legislation is primarily to control the proliferation of Airbnb lets (and holiday cottages) in certain areas. But obviously there's a danger that it will draw in club huts.

However, this is an interesting statement (p14-15):
"From a point of fairness and to ensure visitor safety, our view is that all commercially let visitor accommodation should be within scope . . "

So the obvious question is: are club huts "commercially-let visitor accommodation"? Surely that implies a profit?

I can't see an issue when club members stay in their own club hut. But what about guests? Could the overnight charge include temporary membership of the host club? Would that solve the problem?

This is why I think Q8/Q9 are relevant. Clubs are non-profit. I think the issue, like you say, is the issue of non-member use, even reciprocal rights.

 

[cap n chris]

If somewhere is unfit for safe human occupation then it needs to raise standards. Seems entirely reasonable.

 

[radddogg]

If somewhere is unfit for safe human occupation then it needs to raise standards. Seems entirely reasonable.

Is a bothy unfit for safe human occupation? There is already legislation in place covering things like gas, electricity and water safety.

 

[Bob Mehew]

So the obvious question is: are club huts "commercially-let visitor accommodation"? Surely that implies a profit?

I can't see an issue when club members stay in their own club hut. But what about guests? Could the overnight charge include temporary membership of the host club? Would that solve the problem?

I can't see the Welsh Government going for a criterion based on profit making - it is too open for abuse. Ditto a claim to only be used by members. Even if no money changes hands for a hut / night fee, the payment of the annual sub would be sufficient to be caught as a payment. Also by law all clubs are businesses, whether or not they are profit making and whether or not they are formally incorporated. So I can't think of a workable dodge around it.

 

[Flotsam]

You can rely on Drakeford and his Welsh Nationalist followers thinking this is a great idea. It's all about extreme nationalism, hate of the English, Socialism, class warfare, control freakery and lack of control over Welsh Government spending.
They would do better by cutting down on regulation, public sector spending and encouraging businesses and entrepreneurs,

 

[cap n chris]

Is a bothy unfit for safe human occupation? There is already legislation in place covering things like gas, electricity and water safety.

No idea. Don't know what that is.

 

[Jim MacPherson]

Is a bothy unfit for safe human occupation? There is already legislation in place covering things like gas, electricity and water safety.

Well I survived Sourlies with the family and dog in the early 1990's on a very wet few days, so can't be that bad although the draw on the chimney was mediocre and I don't think my wife was that pleased with her bog immersion 10 minutes north of the bothy, but the marriage managed to cope. Possibly the delightful ferry journey back up from Tarbert, complete with resident eccentric shepherd, and the porpoises near Mallaig helped soothe the temper a bit.

Just as a ps, Tarbert now seems a rather more developed place (as per satellite image) and perhaps the ferry no longer goes right up Loch Nevis for a fine view of Sgurr na Ciche, shame in a way

Jim

 

[alastairgott]

If I were asked this question “maximum number of guests” and I were a caving hut right by OFD, I would say, ‘not applicable’ and site George’s rescue. Signposting to news websites showing photos of the campers around the hut.
Bowing down to bureaucratic nonsense like this is a slippery slope to tying yourself up in knots, and then watching while the robots slap your arse for not conforming.

 

[mikem]

BMC should also be a good source of info

 

[radddogg]

BMC should also be a good source of info

Surprisingly they aren't!

 

[mikem]

Yes, I mean contacting the reps rather than looking at the website (they are usually on it, but not so quick at posting)

 

[radddogg]

Yes, I mean contacting the reps rather than looking at the website (they are usually on it, but not so quick at posting)

I emailed Jane this morning. Hopefully will hear back soon, cheers.

 

[Rhys]

You can rely on Drakeford and his Welsh Nationalist followers thinking this is a great idea. It's all about extreme nationalism, hate of the English, Socialism, class warfare, control freakery and lack of control over Welsh Government spending.
They would do better by cutting down on regulation, public sector spending and encouraging businesses and entrepreneurs,

You do know that Drakeford is a unionist and not a nationalist don't you? He and his followers are Labour; a unionist party. They love the UK and the English.

 

[Flotsam]

You do know that Drakeford is a unionist and not a nationalist don't you? He and his followers are Labour; a unionist party. They love the UK and the English.

If he's a Unionist he has a strange way of showing it. My guess, if he is. It's so he has access to all the grants and subsidies given by the rest of us from our taxes.
Don't get me wrong, I love Wales and the Welsh, that old fashioned ideas cling on is all to the good IMO. I can understand why many of them dislike some of the cretinous and obnoxious types that holiday to there
The Welsh devolution was an attempt to defuse Nationalism, I'm not sure it's working given the way Drakeford is driving things

 

[Rhys]

Ok.