Welsh Government Recreational Access Consultation - just 25 days left

NewStuff

New member
Cap'n Chris said:
Yes, but add in the rider "..while paying lip-service to conservation, and pretty much ignoring it".

You seem to promote that someone with a pro-access attitude is a monumental fuckwit that neither knows nor cares about a speleo environment.  If that's the game, I'm equating anti-access as knuckledragging neanderthals that hark back to the days of gates, power over the unwashed masses, and moderator status.

We can all do sweeping generalisations, but frequently, they're very much wrong.
 

droid

Active member
If we're being pedantic, simply *entering* a cave changes the 'environment'.....

Breathing, shedding skin particles, gaseous effusions from the night in the pub.....

Most 'conservation' (whatever that is) seems to focus on cleaning stal and bringing out rubbish. Biologically speaking there's a lot more to it than that.

More traffic means more change to the cave environment. End of....
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
You could even say that having gates on caves does more harm than good.

Bats are given as the main example.

however, a predator seeing a prey sitting inside the entrance (catching flies or otherwise having a lovely time just inside).
Predators may make use of the cave to trap their prey and therefore get a good dinner.
Probably leaving some blood behind, more bacteria! more cave life.

As this cave life in the entrance builds up, the probability of some of the cave life spreading and adapting to life further inside increases.

Yes there is the chance that some foreign bacteria enter the cave, and some fungus grows, but largely this is just part of the melting pot.

Lets face it that caves may have been open to the air in the past, we'll never know.

You could wax lyrical about all the different permutations of access which may or may not change the cave environment and how it's "bad" in the south.
The North Wales lot get a far worse deal as I've already pointed out elsewhere, I'm sure there are caves there. but not that we know of. It's almost laughable that there are caves which were blocked up by the miners in the region of 200 years ago and people are getting worked up about Conservation. It simply doesn't stack up.

Conservation and common sense in this example should prevail.
It may be a revelation to people in the south that the Milwr tunnel is set to have a Hydroelectric screw fitted by the water company near the entrance. By opening up some of the caves in the riverbed which are upstream of the Milwr tunnel, we could improve the Eco-efficiency of industry on the Wirral.
This could have the impact of reducing the speed of climate change and therefore reduce the speed at which the water tables rise. This will leave us with more caves conserved for future generations. (slippery slope argument, I'll admit, sorry!)
 
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