Taddington - where is all the water?

[spikey]

Given all the rain we've had over the last 24 hours (A6 under 18" of water in places etc), a thought struck me whilst driving up Taddington Dale. Where is all the water?? For such a pronounced valley there was nothing but a little standing water. (And yes I do know there are plenty of dry valleys in limestone areas)

There are no sinks to talk of on the moors above, and precious little in the way of visible resurgences (although I appreciate there is some water probably rising in the bed of the Wye).

Much of the water will be percolating through, but with such saturated ground, the water must be going somewhere.

Does this indicate the presence of a siginificant cave system, or is the "Taddington Master Cave" an impossibilty?

 

[AndyF]

A fair bit usually resurges in wet weather at the bottom of the adjacent Deep Dale in a couple of tight bedding caves.

Other stuff is captured by mine soughs and passes to Millers Dale (Mawry Sough) and upper Deepdale (Hubberdale sough) These soughs effectively maintain the water table at a low level, giving the higher ground scope to absorb a fair amount of water.

Hubberdale mines are reputedly extensive, and were very rich, but no access has been available to cavers due to run-in of the shafts. Hubberdale sough was dug extensively for a while, but failed to pass some major collapses.

 

[Pitlamp]

Didn't Jim Davenport do some diving down one of the Hubberdale shafts late 80s / early 90s with the Orpheus?

 

[Mrs Trellis]

Short answer - in the River Wye. Look how much it grows in volume down Ashwood & Chee dales.

 

[AndyF]

Didn't Jim Davenport do some diving down one of the Hubberdale shafts late 80s / early 90s with the Orpheus?

I don't know, but certainly Orpheus were the peeps digging the sough for a while.

It's crying out for exploration if access could be obtained 

There is the likelihood of finding some significant natural in the area.

Mawry Sough was explored by cavers, but the agreement was then that the entrance was sealed. It is a metal plate welded shut now. I don't know what was found...

 

[spikey]

Short answer - in the River Wye. Look how much it grows in volume down Ashwood & Chee dales.

I can understand that water from the Taddington area may resurge in Deepdale, and Miller's Dale, and also a lot in the bed of the Wye, but I would have thought that Chee Dale is too far upstream. Isn't the majority of the increase in flow here more likely to be from Wormhill (ie. Wormhill springs, Chee Dale Bridge resurgence etc.)??

 

[Mrs Trellis]

I thought Wormhill springs was the resurgence for the north of the Wye, specifically Great Rocks dale & Flagdale.

The DCC had a long session at Hubberdale. In fact one old cove was named Harry Hub on account of his obssession with the place. I'll contact Todge and see what he can turn up in the library.

 

[spikey]

I thought Wormhill springs was the resurgence for the north of the Wye, specifically Great Rocks dale & Flagdale.

I think you're right, but this is within a few hundred yards of the Chee Dale resurgences (again, generally on the north bank of the Wye), so I think it would be unlikely for Taddington water to resurge so far upstream, as suggested. I used Wormhill etc. purely as an explanation for much of the increase in flow between Buxton and Ashford

This raises another interesting point - what about the large system undoubtedly under Wormhill?? I believe it has been suggested that the sinks at Cowlow etc. are only a fragment of what really "lies beneath". What are the permissions like for getting on the land and poking around - presumably not easy, otherwise every man and his dog would already have been there.

 

[Armchair]

Hubberdale was investigated and several sites dug / shafts capped by the Orpheus over a long period (in the 50s with DCC, then again in the 80s), in an attempt to by-pass the hanging death at the upstream end of the sough. Unfortunately little of this was written up, but one or two people are still around who will know the details.

 

[AndyF]

This raises another interesting point - what about the large system undoubtedly under Wormhill?? I believe it has been suggested that the sinks at Cowlow etc. are only a fragment of what really "lies beneath". What are the permissions like for getting on the land and poking around - presumably not easy, otherwise every man and his dog would already have been there.

Worth a thread in its own right. Up the dry valley from the rising is a reasonable sink (marked on COPD plan!) This takes a fari bit of water, but is rather swampy for a dig.

Other possible sites are thin on the ground, but it is without doubt a big catchment with lots of potential...

 

[Mrs Trellis]

Wormhill springs is often described as a "quarry boil-up" since it allegedly flows discoloured when the quarry in Great Rocks Dale is notably active. The water is very cold on a hot summer's day suggesting it comes up from the phreas - probably forced by the lava under the Wye.

Possible digging sites exist in Flagdale where the footpath from wormhill to great Rocks Dale crosses. Anyone wanting a bimble pm me.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Hubberdale was investigated and several sites dug / shafts capped by the Orpheus over a long period (in the 50s with DCC, then again in the 80s), in an attempt to by-pass the hanging death at the upstream end of the sough. Unfortunately little of this was written up, but one or two people are still around who will know the details.

Corky the Hat?

Can't remember his name, but we met someone who was digging there some time in the 80s while staying at the Orpheus. He had a hat with corks hanging from it so we dubbed him Corky the Hat.

 

[Mrs Trellis]

I spoke to Harry "Hubberdale" last night. The old mine plans are in the DCC library which I'm informed is now at the DCC Alderley Edge Visitor Centre. The hanging death was apparently mostly sand and some larger solid stuff. There is another sough in Deepdale named Crotty Sough up the dale from Hubberdale sough. There is a reputed link from a water cister behind the Waterloo Inn. Any investigation of this was not possible because it formed part of the local water supply then. HH thought that there wouldn't be much "natural" in Hubberdale Mine.

 

[T pot 1]

One of the main resurgences for the Taddinton water shed is not to the south but to the north
due to the dipping of the beds back to the river wye in millers dale
try looking at Muary Sough when the dry season comes
in fact have a look now while its in full flood

T pot

 

[AndyF]

One of the main resurgences for the Taddinton water shed is not to the south but to the north
due to the dipping of the beds back to the river wye in millers dale
try looking at Muary Sough when the dry season comes
in fact have a look now while its in full flood

T pot

Hi T pot,

Do you know what is up Maury Sough, as the lid is welded shut....  I've no idea how far it goes...

Andy

 

[T pot 1]

Yep i know it intermitaly, the lid isn't welded shut you need a 10mm allen key to open the lid

T pot

 

[AndyF]

Yep i know it intermitaly, the lid isn't welded shut you need a 10mm allen key to open the lid

T pot

Is it worth a trip?  I shall have a nose if it is....

 

[AndyF]

There is a reputed link from a water cister behind the Waterloo Inn. Any investigation of this was not possible because it formed part of the local water supply then. HH thought that there wouldn't be much "natural" in Hubberdale Mine.

Behind the Waterloo Inn were two soughs. Hardyhead sough was/is run into a resvoir and is I think the water supply.

There may be another one called Wham sough that ran to Groove Rake. Its run in...