Vally ent rope has been removed

[Alex]

It is with that name, I would avoid Tesco's if I were you.

 

[hhoops]

Bit late to the party it seems.

There was a poor condition rope that had been there for years. The sheaf stripped as I climbed it on 10/11/10--I made a gradual descent to the floor, no catastrophe occurred. Someone had already climbed the pitch and so we (KCC) rigged it with one of the club ropes--definitely not in poor condition at the time, but I suppose 2 yrs in situ warrants a change!

Having made a recent trip down Simpsons to discover that the KCC rope had disappeared, we put another new rope in place last Monday (Feb 7th) to aid exit of a club Swinsto trip on Wednesday.

I really don't think that any of us are addicted to internet forums (!) and thus, we were blissfully unaware of any CNCC decision, or caving community consensus. It was a new rope and, as a club, it was decided to leave it in situ....a sort of neighbourly gesture.

If this rope is to be removed, please can somebody let me know as a new club rope (admittedly of the least favoured variety) has been given to the cause and I would like it back.

Personally I feel that a rope--on a pitch that is often littered with ropes--signifying its popularity with groups and personal cavers; in a cave that is is replete with anchors--is not much of an environmental injustice.

 

[Alex]

really don't think that any of us are addicted to internet forums (!) and thus, we were blissfully unaware of any CNCC decision, or caving community consensus.

My point exactly! I would also agree a rope or notices of absence would not really make the place any more artificial.

 

[IanWalker]

There was a poor condition rope that had been there for years. The sheaf stripped as I climbed it on 10/11/10--I made a gradual descent to the floor, no catastrophe occurred. Someone had already climbed the pitch and so we (KCC) rigged it with one of the club ropes--definitely not in poor condition at the time, but I suppose 2 yrs in situ warrants a change!

Having made a recent trip down Simpsons to discover that the KCC rope had disappeared, we put another new rope in place last Monday (Feb 7th) to aid exit of a club Swinsto trip on Wednesday.

I really don't think that any of us are addicted to internet forums (!) and thus, we were blissfully unaware of any CNCC decision, or caving community consensus. It was a new rope and, as a club, it was decided to leave it in situ....a sort of neighbourly gesture.

If this rope is to be removed, please can somebody let me know as a new club rope (admittedly of the least favoured variety) has been given to the cause and I would like it back.

Personally I feel that a rope--on a pitch that is often littered with ropes--signifying its popularity with groups and personal cavers; in a cave that is is replete with anchors--is not much of an environmental injustice.

i appreciate you've acted as you thought would best benefit the caving community and i'm glad of that, it would be nice if all cavers did the same. and thanks for taking the time to respond, i know lots of us have real things to be doing so thanks for that.

but reading your post it strikes me that you twice rigged the pitch with your own ropes to facilitate your own trips - and that's great. but then - despite being unaware of a CNCC decision or caving community consesus - you decided to leave ropes behind on a pitch you have yourself admitted is 'littered'. so do you consider your rope to be litter also?

also to people wanting a notice displaying; resin bolts or fixed iron ladders may well be considered permanent but i don't think the same is true of a rope. hhoops experience on 10/11/10 and judgement that after two years they're ready for a change should exemplify this even for a proponent. so if they are temporary why would anyone think they must be there, and why would anyone need a notice? "something that was temporary is no longer there" should not need proclaiming on a notice board.

 

[Hammy]

Ahha - I think I have come up with the perfect solution!

I notice from their minutes that the CNCC were discussing installing a Via Ferrata in Jingling Pot not so long ago and the idea appears to have been shelved for some reason.

Why not put one in Valley Entrance? No need for either notices or ropes.

 

[alastairgott]

read selected caves of britain and ireland. it gives an adequate representation of what to expect in valley, i'm sure you would do in any other cave.

roof tunnel 15m rope required[full stop]

 

[Alex]

As this topic is now dead, I feel this is the best place for this. (I did not realise it was so long ago).

After a recent discussion with Lancliffe it appears I had genuinely offended him and unknown to me was geninuely upset by my earlier comments in this thread. That was never my intention and I appologise for that, I never meant offence, I re-itterate I was not referring to the point of view not the man saying it as I think we said we all have a different points of views they don't define you as a person, only actions can do that.

Alex

 

[blackholesun]

At the risk of reviving a dead topic:

There is the rope over the bridge trick, but as already stated, getting from the bridge to the top is delicate and risks a large fall. Does anyone think that putting a bolt in just below the top could be a good idea?

There is one next to the bridge already, protecting the middle third of the climb (if I recall correctly).

I think that one bolt could make it a lot safer for those who do climb that pitch. Two bolts would make it into a mini sport climb. More bolts, and it'd resemble the ladder dig in GB. Any of these options would probably reduce the chances of someone getting marooned, someone putting a rope back in situ or someone injuring themselves.

For those who rig their own rope, it'd be out the way so wouldn't be an eyesore and would make no difference to the trip.

 

[Pitlamp]

Nice one Alex.

 

[glyders]

Isn't the traverse supposed to prevent marooning, particularly in high water conditions? I have never actually tried it myself, having always been in a bit of a rush by that point, so perhaps someone will point out why it isn't suitable...

 

[Alex]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the traverse was to aid rescues should the water level be too high but yes I guess it would act as a long alternative route, provided you pull through the traverse (or have a lots or rope!)

 

[mikem]

You don't need lots of rope as there is a relatively easy climb upstream of the
pitch where, if you know what you are doing, you can traverse along with a minimum of rope.

Mike

 

[langcliffe]

That was never my intention and I appologise for that,

Thank you, Alex - apology accepted.

 

[Fulk]

Isn't the traverse supposed to prevent marooning, particularly in high water conditions? I have never actually tried it myself, having always been in a bit of a rush by that point, so perhaps someone will point out why it isn't suitable...

I guess I must have missed something, as I can't remember anyone saying that the traverse 'isn't suitable' (suitable for what?).

Well, I've never done the traverse because I had to, but I have done it out of curiosity and as a kind of rigging exercise. You can, indeed, traverse virtually all the way from just downstream of Master Junction to the Roof Tunnel; obviously it takes time, but I guess that if you were in trouble on account of rising water, you could probably do the traverse with whatever rope you had used on the Swinsto (or Simpson's) pull-through. You  would in all probability have to have somebody rigging with the last person derigging in order that you could re-use the rope. If you're stuck for a quick afternoon/evening trip, it's quite entertaining to rig one or both ways.

 

[glyders]

I don't think anyone did say it wasn't suitable. I was just taking it as implied by it not being involved in the discussion about a fixed rope on the pitch.
As I said, I haven't been up for a look (though it is on my to-do list). If it is doable then that adds weight to the argument against the fixed rope on the pitch.

Presumably the earlier comment about a via ferrata was thinking about putting it along the traverse. The bit where it crosses the passage is already like one. I wouldn't ague in its favour but I'd certainly have fun using it if it were installed!

 

[TheBitterEnd]

The traverse takes ages (or may be it's just my rigging  :doubt; two of us did it once for "fun" from the roof tunnel whilst another party, including some new-comers walked along the streamway and did Philosophers to Swinsto Aven. They got there and back and out of the cave in the time it took us to traverse one way.

So yes it is a good escape route, but unless you have an hour or two to spare it's not really an alternative to dropping a rope down from valley entrance.

 

[Bottlebank]

Love the Via Ferrata in Jingling idea - that'd make a great day out for the family!

 

[adep]

Maybe they should put a notice up at GG saying 'This is a bloody great hole, watch your step, you might fall down it'.

And, of course, at every motorway junction they should put up a notice saying 'This is a motorway, people drive fast, some drive like lunatics; watch out.'

Alex you are absolutely right, Fulk you are being padantic

 

[scurve]

There must be thousands of unemployed people in this country. Isn't it about time the CNCC found these people work by getting four or five of them to steward each cave entrance in the country. These new stewards could then give visiting cavers helpful tips on the cave ahead, including up to date information on the presence, and state, of in situ tat.
Thus the CNCC could kill two birds with one stone: helping solve the country's unemployment problem and stopping unwary cavers from potentially dying.

 

[topcat]

Well, as of last week 3rd October 2013 a rope was back in place.  I didn't rig it or use it, but it was there.  As was a tatty knotted rope up into the Toyland passage, along with an abb rope from the same.