Video: rigging
- Thread starter cap n chris
- Start date
Mark Wright
Active member
Stage 1. Unconscious incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
Stage 2. Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
Stage 3. Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
Stage 4. Unconscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Stage 5. Enlightened competence
The person has not only mastered the physical skill to a highly efficient and accurate level which does not anymore require of them conscious, deliberate and careful execution of the skill but instead done instinctively and reflexively, requiring minimum efforts with maximum quality output, and is able to understand the very dynamics and explanation of their own physical skills. In other words, they comprehend fully and accurately the what, when, how and why of their own skill and possibly those of others on the same skill they have. In addition to this, they are able to transcend and reflect on the physical skill itself and be able to improve on how it is acquired and learned at even greater efficiency with lower energy investment. Having fully understood all necessary steps and components of the skill to be learned and the manner how they are dynamically integrated to produce the desired level of overall competence, they are thereby able to teach the skill to others in a manner that is effective and expedient.
Mark
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
Stage 2. Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
Stage 3. Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
Stage 4. Unconscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Stage 5. Enlightened competence
The person has not only mastered the physical skill to a highly efficient and accurate level which does not anymore require of them conscious, deliberate and careful execution of the skill but instead done instinctively and reflexively, requiring minimum efforts with maximum quality output, and is able to understand the very dynamics and explanation of their own physical skills. In other words, they comprehend fully and accurately the what, when, how and why of their own skill and possibly those of others on the same skill they have. In addition to this, they are able to transcend and reflect on the physical skill itself and be able to improve on how it is acquired and learned at even greater efficiency with lower energy investment. Having fully understood all necessary steps and components of the skill to be learned and the manner how they are dynamically integrated to produce the desired level of overall competence, they are thereby able to teach the skill to others in a manner that is effective and expedient.
Mark
Andy Sparrow
Active member
Bottlebank said:
Thanks for that - a good example. Whoever rigged this has got some basic ideas right - it's well backed up and the extended loop to the hang bolt reduces the fall factor in the unlikely event of anchor failure. It's the sort of thing I would quietly adjust if I came across it, but I wouldn't make an issue out of it.
Pete K
Well-known member
Okay, I respectfully disagree with Andy here. I'm going to comment on this rig at Garlands but first can I just say that when this photo first appeared I did offer some free training to the rigger. This may not have got to them and it was certainly not taken up.
Single bolt hangs are becoming more common as we are getting more and more confident in bolts. That does not mean they are and ever will be infallible. I know of a handful of BCA bolts that have been or are being replaced on my patch alone.
If you choose to use a single bolt then the backup, or traverse in this case, should be tight and the following are the 2 main reasons for this in this location IMO:
Single bolt hangs are becoming more common as we are getting more and more confident in bolts. That does not mean they are and ever will be infallible. I know of a handful of BCA bolts that have been or are being replaced on my patch alone.
If you choose to use a single bolt then the backup, or traverse in this case, should be tight and the following are the 2 main reasons for this in this location IMO:
- The traverse is to protect the rigger and cavers as they approach or retreat from the pitch head. There is enough slack here that if someone fell with cowstails attached they are going over the edge and hanging well below the lip of the pitch.
- If the pitch head bolt was to fail there will be a significant shock onto the backup anchors. A caver on the pitch rope may even deck out if in the lower half of the climb. The rope would then run over 2 cherty sharp edges with obvious consequences. Last but not least the way the backup anchors are tied would load them in a manner that is imparting a twisting force and has not been tested for. I think this is referred to as a triangle of death in America.
Mark, that is an excellent explanation of the various levels of competence. The point I was trying to make is that no matter how competent a person becomes they still need to practice those skills. I have to admit that on occasions, on a familiar pitch I have been guilty of being sloppy because I had done it several times in the past with no problem. A sort of " I didn't fall off last time so I won't need to clip in this time" mentality.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Blimey this thread seems to have generated some interest!... I haven't got time to pick up on various points raised during today but will respond to this one quickly:-
Hi Judi,
Yes, I have been using them and compared with snaplinks they could reasonably be described as "fiddly"; certainly less so than a screwgate though.
Coincidentally the concern about a failure mode caused by grit/gravel trapped between the gates had also occurred to me and to my shame I have not yet got around to testing this out to see what happens; I shall make a point of doing so soon and will report back.
Judi Durber said:
Hi Judi,
Yes, I have been using them and compared with snaplinks they could reasonably be described as "fiddly"; certainly less so than a screwgate though.
Coincidentally the concern about a failure mode caused by grit/gravel trapped between the gates had also occurred to me and to my shame I have not yet got around to testing this out to see what happens; I shall make a point of doing so soon and will report back.
nearlywhite
Active member
I respect your expertise but please don't adjust other people's rigging even if it is 'wrong' unless there's a real and present danger. I've had someone rig a rub point into my rigging on more than one occasion now and even someone qualified interweave my rigging with theirs leading to great frustration.
I'd like to point out that the bad rigging in question wasn't SUSS as the link suggests...
I'd like to point out that the bad rigging in question wasn't SUSS as the link suggests...
Judi Durber
Member
Thank you Chris. I was hoping they would turn out to be a good alternative to the screw gate or twist lock as I find them difficult to operate sometimes.
Simon Wilson
New member
Cap'n Chris said:
Yes, but it's fiddly all of the time whereas a screw gate Karabiner is only fiddly when you need to screw it up. If you use a screw gate karabiner on your cowstails you have the choice of clipping it without screwing it up (quick and easy most of the time) or screwing it up when you want to be secure while moving about.
cap n chris
Well-known member
It's been rather heartening to have been involved in three separate rigging tuition sessions following this thread commencing with a fourth on the horizon; today's included a chappie who is using cowstails with the Grivel carabiner and who has got to grips with it very well; the advantage he has is using Beal pre-made cowstails which provide a useful handgrip which makes using the Grivel carabiners easypeasy. Having had a play with them I'm going to get the same Beal cowstails. Useful session for both of us, then!
If other people want to take advantage of rigging tips and pointers and are Mendip based let me know.
If other people want to take advantage of rigging tips and pointers and are Mendip based let me know.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
No; only to start with. Once you are au fait with it, it's AOK.
You could say that threading a Petzl Stop is fiddly. At first perhaps but once you're up to speed it's second nature.
SamT
Moderator
RE fiddly crabs.
Off the top of my head, one of the most common causes of SRT trauma resulting in call outs and dare I say it , fatalities is being 'hung up'
Event Horizon in Titan is a popular spot for it.
I generally understand being 'hung up' as being in a situation where by you cant unweight the krab that you clipped in with in order to un do it. Very common on re-belays when the uninitiated (sorry - untrained chris) find themselves hung from a cows tail, unable to unclip it.
I'd hazard a guess that this scenario would increase dramatically, or be compounded, if everyone were to start using these krabs.
Another point to pick up on is that of the replacement of the bolts in the peak that Pete made.
For the record - the one replaced in P8 that was 'loose' held 10kN on the hydrojaws and didn't budge at all. Even once the resin had been drilled out of either side, it still held over 6kN before it finally 'cracked' the resin. even then it took repeated ragging with a crow bar and pulls from the hyrdro jaws to get the dammed thing out. .. so I feel our 'increased confidence in bolts' is perfectly justified.
Off the top of my head, one of the most common causes of SRT trauma resulting in call outs and dare I say it , fatalities is being 'hung up'
Event Horizon in Titan is a popular spot for it.
I generally understand being 'hung up' as being in a situation where by you cant unweight the krab that you clipped in with in order to un do it. Very common on re-belays when the uninitiated (sorry - untrained chris) find themselves hung from a cows tail, unable to unclip it.
I'd hazard a guess that this scenario would increase dramatically, or be compounded, if everyone were to start using these krabs.
Another point to pick up on is that of the replacement of the bolts in the peak that Pete made.
For the record - the one replaced in P8 that was 'loose' held 10kN on the hydrojaws and didn't budge at all. Even once the resin had been drilled out of either side, it still held over 6kN before it finally 'cracked' the resin. even then it took repeated ragging with a crow bar and pulls from the hyrdro jaws to get the dammed thing out. .. so I feel our 'increased confidence in bolts' is perfectly justified.
cap n chris
Well-known member
SamT said:
SamT said:
Sounds like user-unfriendly rigging is to blame there, either that or people needing something to stand up in so they can unclip their cowstail and being insufficiently switched on to realise they have a footloop that *might* just be ideal for such a purpose. Either way anyone knowingly participating in a trip to Titan would ensure they brushed up with some prior practice beforehand, surely? - unless they were a cretin. Furthermore anyone knowingly taking a novice there would be culpable of negligence.
cap n chris
Well-known member
It's a swings-and-roundabouts debate, by the looks of things. On the one hand if you have a carabiner that's so easy to unclip that it unclips itself even if you don't want it to then obviously it's really easy to use but on the other hand if you want to avoid death and use a carabiner that requires a specific way of unclipping it then you'll have to get used to that.
nickwilliams
Well-known member
Pete K said:
I, and the rest of the BCA E+T Committee, agree with you.
Nick Williams
BCA Equipment and Techniques Committee Convenor
susie:
The nearest incident I know to this was the poor soul who got stuck below a knot in GG Main Shaft in 1989 in very cold weather (about 6 inches of snow on the ground). He was unable to pass the knot owing to its length (apparently ~27 inches long) . . . so I suppose you could say he was 'hung up'. I think that he died of cold.
The nearest incident I know to this was the poor soul who got stuck below a knot in GG Main Shaft in 1989 in very cold weather (about 6 inches of snow on the ground). He was unable to pass the knot owing to its length (apparently ~27 inches long) . . . so I suppose you could say he was 'hung up'. I think that he died of cold.
