Author Topic: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!  (Read 6133 times)

Offline EuroSpeleo2016

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EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« on: October 09, 2015, 05:12:59 pm »
UK BCA insured clubs and individuals can now sign up to pre-rig caves for EuroSpeleo. The reward for helping is that you get to keep the rope after the event!

Caves will need to be rigged during weekend / week before the event and de-rigged after the event. No permits will be required. One cave per club/group at the moment to keep things fair.

Get all the information you need and sign up on-line at: http://eurospeleo.uk/about/clubs.php

Any questions related to rigging, please contact caves@eurospeleo.uk

Offline EuroSpeleo2016

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 07:20:38 pm »
All the caves have now been allocated to volunteer clubs.

The EuroSpeleo team would like to give a massive thank you to all those who signed up and the ones offered but we didn't have enough for everyone. The response has been overwhelming with all the places getting filled in less than a week!

Offline braveduck

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 09:10:30 pm »
I paid for ES2016 at Hidden Earth  ,but not had a receipt yet ,others the same .

Offline EuroSpeleo2016

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 09:15:53 pm »
@braveduck

Please contact bookings@eurospeleo.uk

Offline Alex

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2015, 09:36:01 am »
You say all caves are rigged, however King and Simpsons does not appear to be allocated to anyone?
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Offline EuroSpeleo2016

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2015, 02:16:53 pm »
@Alex

Some people / clubs have chosen to not have their name made public.

Offline Alex

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2015, 07:14:36 pm »
Ahh I see. Can I suggest putting anomonoys  (spelt correctly of course) on them would solve any future confusion? Though I do wonder why clubs would not want there names on them, I think I will bring my own rope if I do those particular caves ;) (Just in jest, I am sure the rigging will be fine)
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Offline Over the Hill

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2015, 10:10:29 am »
@Alex

Some people / clubs have chosen to not have their name made public.

As in "people" and I keep the rope then.  :coffee:
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Offline EuroSpeleo2016

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2015, 01:08:48 pm »
Those who rig can choose to do with the rope as they wish after the event however we would encourage everyone to make it available to their club to benefit as many people as possible. If you're not a member of a club, perhaps consider donating it.

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2015, 01:09:21 pm »
@Alex

Some people / clubs have chosen to not have their name made public.

As in "people" and I keep the rope then.  :coffee:

I can't help but wonder why any of the "people / clubs" would want to be anonymous and indeed why it is being allowed. I thought they all had to bona fide BCA member clubs so why the anonymity/secrecy?

Offline EuroSpeleo2016

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2015, 01:31:04 pm »
Rigging signup was open to any BCA insured person, not just clubs and has always been advertised as such. It is perfectly reasonable for individuals not to want their name make public. Although we would encourage clubs to do it so more people benefit from the rope, we don't want exclude those who want to be involved but choose not to be a member of a club.

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 09:59:12 pm »
Rigging signup was open to any BCA insured person, not just clubs and has always been advertised as such. It is perfectly reasonable for individuals not to want their name make public. Although we would encourage clubs to do it so more people benefit from the rope, we don't want exclude those who want to be involved but choose not to be a member of a club.

In the email sent to CNCC member clubs it says, "We are wanting clubs to commit to take charge of the rigging."
In the UK Clubs page of the http://eurospeleo.uk/about/clubs.php website it says, "For UK clubs, particularly those regularly active in the area, we will be getting in touch in due course to ask for volunteer clubs to help with the rigging and de-rigging of the caves..." So it hasn't always been advertised as being open to individuals. It was only advertised as being open to individuals at the start of this thread and after it had been advertised to clubs.

On the website it now says, "All the caves have now been allocated to volunteer clubs." but there are three caves with no name next to them on the list: King Pot, Jingling and Simpsons. I'm struggling to think of a legitimate reason why the names of the clubs to which the caves have been allocated should be kept secret especially when they are being given a few hundred quids worth of rope. I don't think it is a big issue but there is something about this which just doesn't sit right with me.



Offline blackshiver

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2015, 12:17:36 pm »
Personally I'm just glad everyone has pitched in and the caves are covered properly. It shows UK cavers are working together collaboratively to make Eurospeleo the fantastic event it should be for the international visitors to the area.
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Offline Over the Hill

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2015, 11:44:44 pm »
All the caves have now been allocated to volunteer clubs.

The EuroSpeleo team would like to give a massive thank you to all those who signed up and the ones offered but we didn't have enough for everyone. The response has been overwhelming with all the places getting filled in less than a week!

So having allocated caves did you first go along and ask Mr Farmer/Landowner for permission on behalf of those now volunteering? Or are the volunteers your envoys in the whole permission process, including those turning up anonymously ?
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Offline Les W

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2015, 12:26:57 am »
 :thumbsup:
Personally I'm just glad everyone has pitched in and the caves are covered properly. It shows UK cavers are working together collaboratively to make Eurospeleo the fantastic event it should be for the international visitors to the area.

I think it's awesome that the sign up for this has been so swift.
I do like the fact that the UK Cavers have wholeheartedly taken on this important task for the event. Without this commitment we would struggle, but the swift and comprehensive take up has shown that the UK cavers are prepared to show their caves to the rest of the world. Well done to you all, this is the attitude that will make Eurospeleo a massive success.  :thumbsup:
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Offline ianball11

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2015, 08:00:26 pm »
Nought to do with free rope?

Offline MJenkinson

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2015, 05:54:25 am »
After the rope has been there for a week or two or three, in some of the most popular caves in the Dales, used and abused by cavers of various standards, I am not sure how much use it will be to a club afterwards anyway.

Still signed our lot up for it, would have done it if the rope had to be returned. Will probably end up buying new maillons and slings for the route anyway out of our own pocket.

I like to think (possibly naively) that the reason most clubs signed up is more aligned with LesW's view.

Offline Alex

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2015, 10:14:36 am »
Aye we get to rig Meregill, doubt there would be much useable rope left after the almost 2 weeks of caving, I know how Bradfords rope become pretty un-useable after the GG winch meet. If the cavers don't wreck it, knowing that cave the weather will! Anyway we are glad to help, its a good point about the crabs being wrecked and lets face it some are likely to go missing... could turn out to be quite expensive.
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Offline Cavematt

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2015, 10:33:19 am »
I think it's fantastic that so many clubs have signed up to help for the event, and I suspect the offer of free rope had little persuasion for many.

The limitation of one cave per club/individual/group of individual was however to ensure that as many people as possible get involved with the event, and that the benefit of free rope is taken advantage of by as many people as possible. The only exception made here is the Craven Pothole Club, who will be rigging the Gaping Gill caves as this falls under the remit of their winchmeet agreement with Ingleborough Estate. 

Simon, in the email sent to CNCC member clubs, you are correct that I specifically addressed this to clubs, because it is clubs who form our mailing list and not individual cavers. However, in the information on the website about signing up (which was circulated by social media I believe), it was stated that individuals were able to apply too. This information was removed after all caves had been allocated as it was no longer relevant to the website hence why you will not be able to find it now.

My expectation was that it would be predominantly clubs who would sign up, with a handful of individuals/groups of individuals, which is exactly what has happened and I'm really pleased that so many people have offered to help, and extremely thankful to those who have.

Regarding permission, we endeavour to get a bespoke arrangement specifically for this event which will enable access to all the listed caves for the duration of the event and for the group rigging and derigging the rope in the week before and after. Johnny is working hard on this, however it is still a work in progress (hence why the info on the website also said that there MAY be some changes to the list of caves further down the line). The aim for now was to come up with a wish-list of caves (which will hopefully remain true) and to get people involved in making the committment now.

In fact, we have a few extra caves that we are hoping to add to the list if we are able to get some more rope (beyond the 5 km we had originally planned). If this happens, they will be made available for signup as before.
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Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2015, 09:16:41 am »
Moderator Comment Tried splitting the thread several times just now but get a database error. Will work on it - and hopefully achieve a split eventually.

Offline Badlad

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2015, 07:14:17 pm »
The type of rope which is likely to be used by Eurospeleo should easily last the duration of the event in reasonable to good condition.  Eurospeleo is only 8-9 days long and I'm sure there will be some regulation of how many parties go down a cave on any one day so no cave should get an intolerable amount of traffic.  Also by following the standard topo guides and using the fixed bolts no reason why the rigging should not be good.

During exploration periods I have had caves like Ireby Fell Cavern and Lost Johns rigged for and year/18 months at least.  During that time I know our group have undertaken 50-80 trips on the same ropes.  Many other teams have taken advantage of this rigging too and most of the ropes were still serviceable after.  Therefore, perhaps with just a few exceptions, most of the Eurospeleo rope will be a very welcome reward for those rigging the caves.

Offline Echo Aven

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Re: EuroSpeleo 2016 - sign up now to rig dales caves!
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2015, 04:42:45 am »
Tried splitting the thread several times just now but get a database error. Will work on it - and hopefully achieve a split eventually.

Chris, as I look now I see replies 16-20 on page 1 are duplicated as replies 25-29 on page 2, and there are no replies 21-24.

When you (or another friendly mod/admin) clear this up please delete this post as it adds nothing to the debate and is not a very exciting first post.