Author Topic: BCA Insurance  (Read 3493 times)

Online Fulk

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BCA Insurance
« on: April 19, 2016, 12:00:11 pm »
Hi, could someone tell me if the BCA insurance scheme for 'one-off' trips still operates, and if so how does one go about obtaining it?

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2016, 12:17:40 pm »
There has never been a 'one off' trip insurance as such, although we have sometimes made special arrangements for certain events (such as the NAMHO conference).

There is a 'temporary members' arrangement. Details are in the FAQ here:

http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=legal_insurance:pl_insurance_documents

Let me know if this does not answer your questions.
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Online SamT

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2016, 12:51:08 pm »
While you're on Nick...

What if a club member states... "I'm a member of the BMC and have my 3rd Party insurance via them".

Would I have to include them on the form to BCA as insured 'other club', or does BMC not count and further more, what it they're just not interested in getting BCA insurance, yet are a member of a club.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 02:48:25 pm by SamT »

Online Fulk

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2016, 02:08:55 pm »
Thanks Nick; I've e-mailed the address given in the article, but it wouldn't go . . . so I tried changing it from:

insurance@british-caving,org.uk

to:
insurance@british-caving.org.uk

and it seemed to work. I guess it needs changing in the PDF.

Offline Ed

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 03:04:23 pm »
While you're on Nick...

What if a club member states... "I'm a member of the BMC and have my 3rd Party insurance via them".

Would I have to include them on the form to BCA as insured 'other club', or does BMC not count and further more, what it they're just not interested in getting BCA insurance, yet are a member of a club.

from the BMC:

"Additionally activities such as ski mountaineering, occasional mountain biking and caving, are covered provided the activities are non-competitive and are SECONDARY to the activities of the club (i.e. are not the main activity of the club - it would be assumed that a club whose prime activity is caving, for example, would be affiliated to and have insurance through the NCA)."

So a odd caving trip as a member of climbing club giving a try out = yes. As a member of a caving club = no

Online SamT

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 03:15:47 pm »

OK,

So their BMC insurance covers them 3rd party underground (occasionally).

They don't want to pay £17 to BCA for what they probably consider as duplicate insurance.

Yet have paid their membership fee to the caving club.

So how does that stand them and the caving club  in the eyes of the BCA (in terms of insurance) given the are affiliated with BCA along with most of its members who are CIM.

What should be stated on the form and proforma to BCA??

Offline andrewmc

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 04:10:00 pm »
I could be wrong but I looked this up recently, and this is what I remember:

BMC insurance only covers caving on an organized trip of that club (where the main purpose of that club is not caving). In other words there is no time that BMC insurance can cover a person going caving with a BCA caving club (unless that club is also a BMC club and it is a club trip).

BMC member going caving with a BMC club which has organized a caving trip as a one-off/occasional special trip: covered (for that trip).
BMC member going caving with a non-BMC club: not covered.
BMC member going caving independently: not covered.
BMC member going climbing independently: covered (this is the key difference).

So their BMC insurance covers them 3rd party underground (occasionally).

As far as you (as a non-BMC club) are concerned, no it doesn't.

http://www.bmc-insurance-centre.co.uk/

Note that no mention of 'caving' is made for the 'members' insurance (because members are NOT insured for caving), and that (as already stated in this thread) the club insurance covers it only as a secondary activity during a club meet only.

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 04:37:10 pm »

OK,

So their BMC insurance covers them 3rd party underground (occasionally).

They don't want to pay £17 to BCA for what they probably consider as duplicate insurance.

Yet have paid their membership fee to the caving club.

So how does that stand them and the caving club  in the eyes of the BCA (in terms of insurance) given the are affiliated with BCA along with most of its members who are CIM.

What should be stated on the form and proforma to BCA??

Andrew's reply is almost completely correct. They need to pay for the BCA cover. They don't have insurance for their membership of your club by virtue of their membership of BMC so it's not a 'duplicate' payment.

The only bit of Andrew's post I do not agree with is:


BMC member going climbing independently: covered (this is the key difference).


If what Andrew meant by this is that an individual member of BCA is not covered for going caving independently, then this is wrong: if you are BCA individual member (CIM or DIM) then you are covered irrespective of whether those you go caving with are BCA members. However, the people who are with you won't be insured if they are not BCA members, and in a club context unless all members are insured, the club itself is not fully insured. The document "Club insurance - why bother' which you can download from the link in my post above explains this.
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Offline nickwilliams

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 04:39:51 pm »
Thanks Nick; I've e-mailed the address given in the article, but it wouldn't go . . . so I tried changing it from:

insurance@british-caving,org.uk

to:
insurance@british-caving.org.uk

and it seemed to work. I guess it needs changing in the PDF.

I've not got an e-mail from you so something is not working there. I don't control the BCA e-mail system so I'll need to get someone else to investigate. I suspect that insurance@... goes to Glenn Jones, not to me. If you want to contact me, best thing would be to use nick dot williams at hucklow dot net.
"Economics is simply the branch of sociology that deals with people trading items and the fact that they use more numbers does not make it anymore of a science."

Online Fulk

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2016, 05:03:25 pm »
Thanks, Nick; I've sent you an e-mail at the address you gave.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2016, 05:37:22 pm »
If what Andrew meant by this is that an individual member of BCA is not covered for going caving independently, then this is wrong: if you are BCA individual member (CIM or DIM) then you are covered irrespective of whether those you go caving with are BCA members.

I was just saying that the key difference between climbing and caving with BMC insurance is that you are NOT insured to cave independently with BMC insurance (whereas you are insured to climb independently).
Or possibly I was saying that the key difference between BCA and BMC insurance is that only with BCA insurance are you insured to cave independently; I can't remember now! :)

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 07:25:47 pm »
Please can a mod. move this to the 'Insurance' sub board?
"Economics is simply the branch of sociology that deals with people trading items and the fact that they use more numbers does not make it anymore of a science."

Offline Les W

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 09:39:24 pm »
Thanks Nick; I've e-mailed the address given in the article, but it wouldn't go . . . so I tried changing it from:

insurance@british-caving,org.uk

to:
insurance@british-caving.org.uk

and it seemed to work. I guess it needs changing in the PDF.

I've not got an e-mail from you so something is not working there. I don't control the BCA e-mail system so I'll need to get someone else to investigate. I suspect that insurance@... goes to Glenn Jones, not to me. If you want to contact me, best thing would be to use nick dot williams at hucklow dot net.

Insurance@... goes to Glenn
insurance.manager@... goes to Nick  :thumbsup:
I'm a very busy person

Online SamT

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2016, 10:39:44 am »
Cheers for the explanations guys - Top notch  :thumbsup:

(and a thread that's not yet been de-railed, Yay. )

Offline Over the Hill

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2016, 09:25:00 pm »
and members of the Austrian Alpine Club ?  :coffee:
NCC (45 years plus).

Online SamT

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Re: BCA Insurance
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2016, 12:32:08 pm »
Or Speleo Club Comminges

i.e. whats the situation with (paid) members of our club who now live abroad and are insured with their local associations.