Author Topic: Castleton problems  (Read 13581 times)

Offline aquamole jim

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Castleton problems
« on: August 15, 2016, 09:16:40 pm »
It looks like Derbyshire County Council, are imposing new parking restrictions in Castleton, which may have a very negative impact on cavers, especially those who use the T.S.G caving club.

Offline 2xw

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 12:59:13 pm »
Jim,

I've seen you and Anne linking to this but I can't find anyrhing online. Is there an address to whom we can send objections?


Offline owd git

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2016, 02:47:45 pm »
On a worrying note several thousand bikers protesting and blockading Matlock bath had no effect on the same authority :confused: :confused: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:
will support you none the less. :thumbsup:
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Offline 2xw

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2016, 04:11:33 pm »
Wonder if a bit of expanding foam and an angle grinder would work instead  :tease:  :shrug:

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 06:32:39 pm »
Wonder if a bit of expanding foam and an angle grinder would work instead  :tease:  :shrug:

This is absolutely not the way to tackle this potential menace.

There will be some information on the Derbyshire County Council's website, giving details of the proposal - and the only way to influence this decision is to make a formal objection, to be in DCC's hands before Friday 2nd September. You need to write to:

STRATEGIC DIRECTOR - ECONOMY TRANSPORT AND COMMUNICATIONS,
DERBYSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL,
COUNTY HALL,
MATLOCK,
DE4 3AG

There is no point sending anything abusive, or accusatory (despite what many of us are probably thinking). You need to list concrete reasons why this proposed parking alteration would create a worse situation than that at present. This has the potential to have a seriously adverse effect on cavers in the UK nationally, not just Peak District cavers. If you don't give proper grounds for your objection DCC will have every justification for filing it under "b".

There is also an email address: netmanadmin@derbyshire.gov.uk

(However, a real letter would probably have more clout.)

There is only a very short time to do your bit, so please, everyone, write a structured letter to object.

This is the thin end of a very nasty wedge and you might like to ask yourself where will be next, if it's not nipped in the bud.

Go on - JUST DO IT!

Offline 2xw

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 07:22:00 pm »
It would be useful to have a proper list of what is potentially occuring - I searched "castleton parking" and also just "castleton" on the DCC website and found nowt.

A link to the full list of the proposals would be good and what exactly is going to happen. Read different things on UKC and Facebook

Offline Mark

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 07:37:25 pm »
Links to proposals

http://www.castletonvillage.co.uk/Z3136%20Proposed%20Traffic%20Regulation%20Order%20-%20Castleton.pdf

http://www.castletonvillage.co.uk/Castleton_HMT274%20%20final%20F%20.pdf

Also the following info

Castleton Parish Council

NOTICE OF EXTRAORDINARY MEETING: THURSDAY 25th AUGUST 2016, 7PM at CASTLETON VILLAGE HALL
Notice is hereby given of the above meeting, to which all Councillors are hereby summoned to attend, for the purposes of transacting the following business:

Item 1

To consider accepting any apologies for absence.

Item 2

To record declarations of personal or pecuniary interests from Members as to any items to be discussed and as necessary or appropriate to receive and approve any Members’ requests for dispensations on matters in which they have any Disclosable Pecuniary Interests.

Item 3

Public Participation:  Members of the public will be allowed to speak to the meeting upon items included in the Agenda in accordance with Standing Orders and at the discretion of the Chair of the meeting.

Item 4

Proposed Traffic Regulation Order:  To consider the proposed order, discuss and instruct notification of the Council’s views to the relevant authorities.


Public participation is usually only about 15 minutes, so if anyone is around on Thursday and could attend you might get your two pennerth in, at the very least you will get some idea of the feelings of other residents.


« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 08:01:21 pm by Mark »

Offline todcaver

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 07:13:33 am »
I'm guessing all the local residents and shop owners have been informed about said meeting  :shrug:

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2016, 09:47:24 am »
Don't cavers drink any more? All the pub car parks are free to patrons.
Mrs Trellis
Upper Sheeps Bottom
North Wales

Offline bograt

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2016, 10:33:23 am »
Don't cavers drink any more? All the pub car parks are free to patrons.

Indeed, I recall TSG having an agreement with the then landlord of the Peak Hotel, and I believe the Landlord of the Bull is still the chap who had the Wanted for a while, so he understands cavers----(err, a good thing??? :-\ :-\).
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2016, 11:10:30 am »
I don't drink or drive, so much of this argument is fairly abstract to me, but I am very involved in the TSG and am well aware of the danger to the club that this proposal might create. Certainly the Peak Hotel have been tolerant if drinks are purchased, and that is one route to go down in extremis, but often a visit to the club may be daytime weekdays and not for the whole day, and so drinking before driving merely to secure a parking place is certainly not to be recommended, and not really a solution in the long-term.

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2016, 01:10:41 pm »
You don't have to drink alcohol to be a patron.

Wacker & I know and use an offroad parking place which we may be able to persuade the owner to allow designated vehicles to park there as long as his own vehicle isn't obstructed.
Mrs Trellis
Upper Sheeps Bottom
North Wales

Offline pwhole

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2016, 01:49:12 pm »
I know, but a £3 glass of coke isn't much of a draw either when I can get a 2L bottle for half that price. I just don't like pubs, personally, but that's just me. Intrigued on the suggestion though. I've just finished my objection letter, so will whack in the postbox this afternoon.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2016, 01:56:31 pm »
You don't have to drink alcohol to be a patron.

Wacker & I know and use an offroad parking place which we may be able to persuade the owner to allow designated vehicles to park there as long as his own vehicle isn't obstructed.


Mrs Trellis, Could you possibly Pm me so that we can discuss this. I'm keen to know where and how many potential parking spots before we go any further. (perhaps I'll take you up on that offer of meeting up in Stockport at lunch...)

I will, no doubt, turn up to the meeting on Thursday eve and then complete and send a letter on Friday.

Offline cooleycr

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2016, 02:23:10 pm »
I know that The Peak Hotel don't mind us (TSG) parking up on our club meeting nights so long as we pop in for a drink (minimum spend £10 I believe!) but we are talking about the requirement to park a vehicle potentially from Friday afternoon through Sunday evening (for anyone staying over at the Chapel).

This situation will not only impact cavers but climbers and walkers alike as we all go out for more than the two hours that is being proposed so can this info get reposted on the other websites so as to make everyone aware - as much as we like to think we are the reason that Castleton exists, the area is not just about caving
TSG

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 11:10:15 pm »
Well Attended meeting, all villagers seemed in opposition to the Plans (standing room only).

Similar Plans are apparently in place to impose restrictions in Bradwell, Hope, and Hathersage.

Little to no consultation has taken place with Castleton Parish Council or High Peak Borough Council.

Join my fight on Twitter @CURB_hopeV_park
and we'll see just how effective a social Media Campaign can be.

Key points:
- Castleton is a conservation zone, Parking meters beside the Church will be an eyesore in comparison to the Grade 2 listed Church and Historically important walls around it.
- Plans to Change the main street in front of Peveril Bakery to be streetside parking will:
 1) make it impossible for Those Travelling by bus to Cross the road if all parking spots are taken
 2) Block 3 Disabled Access ramps to the pavement with cars.
 3) make it impossible for Disabled visitors to use the pavement due to reduced space for Wheelchairs on the pavement (due to parking meters on an already tiny width pavement).
 4) Stop a short stay in front of Peveril Stores for a smash and grab for Grub, (John Harrison [Showcave owner] and the Hope cement works guys always do this).
 5) Increase the likelihood of people "doing no harm" by pulling up in the Bus station to visit the shop.
 6) make it impossible for Busses to pull into the Bus station due to cars parked (on opposite side of road)

In short the Proposed Restrictions are unworkable, illogical, not very well thought through and Downright dangerous.

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2016, 11:27:39 pm »
Hi Alastair,

Was anyone from DCC present at the meeting, and if so was there any explanation of what they are trying to achieve with these proposals?
"Economics is simply the branch of sociology that deals with people trading items and the fact that they use more numbers does not make it anymore of a science."

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2016, 11:35:13 pm »
No show From DCC, despite an invitation. Castleton Parish were only informed two weeks ago (of the implementation of the plans)

All contact with DCC seems to point to moneymaking. Despite making a loss on current parking meters along the road (peak cavern CP to jn with Arthurs way and Treak cliff road).

Offline bograt

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2016, 11:44:55 pm »
Surely Peak Cavern CP is independent?
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2016, 11:56:15 pm »
I think he just means the zone is from the Peak Cavern car park up the Buxton Road, not the car park itself.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2016, 09:39:00 am »
yes, from the meters along the road, PW says Buxton Road and I heard Buxton road a lot last night as well.

Buxton road it must be!

The onroad bays start outside the peak cavern car park and continue up the (Treakcliff/odin/mamtor) road to the speedwell overflow (I'm guessing they're thinking of Reinstating the meters up that section of road, they are currently burnt out and broken).

Offline Edd

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2016, 10:08:54 pm »
Here are my notes from the meeting last night:

- Castleton villagers are very against the proposed changes and everyone wants to see them stopped/blocked
- DCC were invited along to the meeting but didn't attend (they said they hadn't received the invitation)
- Verbally, DCC have said that the intention is to raise revenues
- The planning rules don't allow revenue raising to be used as a justification for introducing pay and display parking (only safety concerns and relieving congestion)
- An accountant has analysed some reports about similar applications in Derbyshire made a loss of £1k and one only made £5k - so not really worth it economically (there were a number of figures stated, hopefully the source report will be referenced by Castleton PC somewhere soon)
- Studies of introducing similar schemes in Glossop, Ashbourne and Matlock stated that the towns were too small to benefit from such a system
- DCC have conducted no studies into the viability or impact of the scheme so there is no basis for it.
- The scheme is planned to be extended through the Hope Valley (Hathersage, Bamford & Hope)
- The local councillors and MP are very much behind the Castleton residents

CASTLETON PARISH COUNCIL PLANS
- Raise the issue in the media
- EVERYONE to send in their objections by 2nd September
- Legal options to be investigated
- Local ombudsman will be contacted
- Statement of facts/refutation of DCC's case will be put together

Offline Edd

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2016, 10:36:14 pm »
I should emphasise that the two really important things are;
1) Send in your objections by WEDNESDAY
2) If you have relevant experience or expertise to fight these changes, make yourself known. I'm trying to get a point of contact in Castleton Parish Council to coordinate this help.

Offline Cave_Troll

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2016, 08:34:25 pm »
the question of legality will be brushed aside . the flashing yellow lights outside the school have a sign under them saying "funded by the castleton on street parking scheme"
DCC'll say that the new P&D bays will be used to find safety schemes and so its justified

the 3 bays next to the bus station on the opposite side of the road from the perivil stores are going to be 30 mins waiting. so that's the "people want to pop in for a newspaper" problem "sorted".

at least one of the dropped kerbs that are described as "wheelchair access" is actually to solve the problem of there being a manhole crossing the kerb. the others will likely be marked and the bays arranged so they're not blocked

there is a gap in the bays outside the peak hotel which will "allow cars from hope to pull in to allow cars from castleton to pass"

the bloke with a garage next to the stores will find that there are no bays in front of his garage and in fact the double yellows will prevent parking in front of it.
 
I'd guess that the meters will be on the pavement on the same side as the bus turning circle. the bays outside the church will also probably have meters on the pavement side of the road. so narrow pavements won't be blocked.

The council will probably view the opinions of the villagers as just "scared of change"

the on road parking out past the Peak cavern carpark towards odin will become 4 hours max. at the moment MTB and walkers can stay there all day, this will stop them doing that. i suspect that it may well get changed back to all day . especially as part of a "compromise" from DCC


:-(





Offline Cave_Troll

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2016, 08:37:35 pm »
thats from my experience of working with councils on residents parking by the way..

you may be able to put in a Freedom of information request to see the logs of emails coming in to DCC to prove that they did not get the invite email from the parish council.

sorry i don't work for that council so i can't  help with that...

 

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