Author Topic: Castleton problems  (Read 13575 times)

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5315
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2016, 07:58:15 am »
Despite Cave Troll's less than encouraging opinion - the only certainty is that, if we don't raise structured objections, this will go ahead.

Just do it.

Offline droid

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • WMRG
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2016, 02:29:51 pm »
Agreed, Pitlamp.

However: given DCC's performance in Matlock Bath, despite several thousand motorcyclists protesting and opposition from local businesses, I wouldn't hold my breath.....:-(
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Gollum

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 232
  • I don't do high, wet, tight or dark
    • Twin Peaks Outdoor Activities
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2016, 06:14:39 pm »
I used to have a lot of meetings with DCC in my previous roll of union rep. I can tell you from experience that DCC believe consultation is telling you what they are doing. I wish you luck with your campaign.
Twin Peaks Outdoor Activities
Quality Instruction in the Peak District

Offline martinb

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 662
  • In Normandy, France, not close to Limestone
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2016, 06:59:09 pm »
DCC road roughshod over the people of Hasland, Chesterfield a number of years ago when they installed traffic lights at a junction where there had been a mini roundabout.

Instead of relatively free flowing traffic, the timing of the lights snarled up the surrounding roads. So the good people of Hasland started a petition demanding their roundabout back. Then a number of pedestrian accidents caused by cars squarely shifted DCC focus as there had never been a problem with the pelican crossing when there had been a mini roundabout.

IIRC, there was a fatality and DCC promised to put back the mini roundabout and crossing. They did and everything is back to normal.

So perhaps, when DCC make the changes, realise that the village shops and pubs start shouting that they are loosing money, they'll put everything back to how it was.

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5315
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2016, 07:50:50 pm »
Agreed, Pitlamp.

However: given DCC's performance in Matlock Bath, despite several thousand motorcyclists protesting and opposition from local businesses, I wouldn't hold my breath.....:-(

It might have depended on whether said motorcyclists took the trouble to produce properly structured arguments or whether many of their communications were less than polite.

It strikes me that perhaps DCA might usefully state a position on this problem, which would affect all Peak District cavers if it were to go ahead. It would be more difficult for the Council to go against the express wishes of the organisation that represents all cavers' interests in this caving area - especially when it relates to (arguably) the finest cave system in the Peak District. I'm not a member currently so I'm not in a position to ask its officers. But it'd be great if someone who is a member could do).

In fact, if DCC hasn't directly consulted DCA already, a perfectly reasonable question is "Why not?". If they haven't then it reveals how shallow an effort they've made to "consult" stakeholders.

Online Jenny P

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 781
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2016, 04:16:49 pm »
In fact DCA have been asked by TSG members to help over this problem and have been in communication with them to see if there is anything we can do.  We have not been approached by DCC.

One thing which puzzles me slightly over this is the reference to DCC.  I was under the assumption that it was the local DISTRICT Council who have responsibility for parking enforcement.  So, in the case of Castleton this would be High Peak Borough Council.  Certainly the parking restrictions in Ashbourne are overseen by Derbyshire Dales District Council, not by DCC.  If HPBC could be persuaded to object as well as the Parish Council and the residents there could be some mileage in that.

Also worth noting that the motorcyclists have voted with their wheels over the new restrictions in Matlock Bath - The comment today was that there had never been so many motorcycles parked outside the Smithy Cafe in Monyash.  This will have lost the traders of Matlock Bath a lot of money so one hopes they will get on to Derbyshire Dales D.C. and protest about this.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.

Offline Edd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • TSG, SUSS
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2016, 09:32:30 pm »
It is definitely Derbyshire County Council, who are trying to implement the scheme. Derbyshire County Council are for the scheme and all of the local politicians - from the Parish Council to local MP - are against the scheme. Someone (the Chairman?) of High Peak Borough Council was at the public meeting on Thursday and said he would voice his objections too, as did Jocelyn Streak the County Councillor (elected member not civil servant).

I'm waiting to hear back from the Castleton Parish Council at the moment so there is direct communication between them and the cavers. I'd like them to collect all of their evidence and publish a document and if you have information about Matlock Bath, that'd be useful.

Offline alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1835
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2016, 09:34:11 pm »
Jenny, I believe the differences come because apparently castleton is on a trunk road, so the decision comes down to the highways something or other rather than HP borough.

(Trunk road being a main road through Derbyshire)

Offline droid

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • WMRG
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2016, 09:40:43 pm »
The A6 through Matlock Bath is also a trunk road.....
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Mark Wright

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 802
  • NCC, BBPC
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2016, 09:56:50 pm »
The A625 hasn't been a Trunk Road since the Mam Tor stretch of it collapsed for the final time in 1979.

Mark

Offline kay

  • Not a
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2016, 10:06:27 pm »
The A6 through Matlock Bath is also a trunk road.....

No it's not. There was a major de-trunking exercise somewhere around 2000 and responsibility for a whole raft of roads was passed from Highways Agency (now Highways England) to Local Authorities. There is now no E-W trunk road between Derby and Barnsley.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524170/s150003_Network_Management_interim_update.pdf     

Offline droid

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • WMRG
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2016, 03:55:12 am »
Point taken.

Can I retain some credibility by pointing out that Barnsley is NORTH of Derby, not E/W of it?
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5315
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2016, 08:12:57 am »
Thanks for your thoughts Jenny.

What kind of "consultation" is this, in which access to the Peak's premier cave system would be so adversely affected, yet the Derbyshire Caving Association hasn't even been approached?!

This is clearly all about trying to squeeze money from people who would get no choice but to have the scheme inflicted on them - but in such a horribly inefficient way (i.e. only a tiny fraction of the revenue, if any, would actually go to the DCC) also causing widespread and unnecessary inconvenience.

Object now - or moan at leisure . . . . .

Offline Chocolate fireguard

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2016, 09:01:44 am »

Can I retain some credibility by pointing out that Barnsley is NORTH of Derby, not E/W of it?

I'm not sure you can.
You might want to re-read and re-think kay's post.


What kind of "consultation" is this, in which access to the Peak's premier cave system would be so adversely affected, yet the Derbyshire Caving Association hasn't even been approached?!


This comes over as a bit self-absorbed.

Don't get me wrong - I'm sure the proposed scheme will badly affect Castleton cavers (I am one of them, on a good day) - but it's not realistic to believe that cavers will be on DCC's list of people to consult, let alone near the top of it.
In the great scheme of things there aren't that many of us and in the past TSG has sensibly tried to keep a low profile in the village. When sober anyway.


Object now - or moan at leisure . . . . .
Yes.




Offline Mrs Trellis

  • British Jobs for British Shirkers
  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 922
  • Daft old bat
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2016, 09:48:28 am »
Cavers? It's about raising revenue from a tourist honeypot.
Mrs Trellis
Upper Sheeps Bottom
North Wales

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5315
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2016, 09:56:53 am »
Thanks Chocolate Fireguard. Some good points there but I disagree that DCC shouldn't have consulted DCA.

If I submit a planning application for my house to be altered I'm expected to have consulted all sorts of experts about umpteen peripheral issues. The presence of bats is one example. If just one bat has squatted in my loft, I can't disturb it.

Given Castleton's nationally important cave system at stake (visited by a great many cavers), together with the well established (and excellent) role which DCA is well known to perform in the Peak District, I'm afraid that DCC bypassing DCA is just not good enough. At best, it reveals a lack of proper effort to consult genuinely. (At worst, one can only speculate on what devious tricks it may suggest.)

If DCC wants to muck so many people around they should at least organise a proper consultation, involving all stakeholders.

Offline kay

  • Not a
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2016, 10:03:48 am »
Point taken.

Can I retain some credibility by pointing out that Barnsley is NORTH of Derby, not E/W of it?

<sigh> There is a trunk road running E-W from Derby. If you go north from Derby, there is no trunk road running E-W until you get to Barnsley.

OR

In the area between Derby (to the S) and Barnsley (to the N) there is no trunk road running E/W.

(I do know Barnsley isn't E/W of Derby, you know. I live in Yorkshire. Barnsley's in Yorkshire. Derby's down south ;) )

Offline pwhole

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1922
  • TSG, DCA, PDMHS
    • Phil Wolstenholme website
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2016, 11:52:23 am »
My letter has included a paragraph about the scientific and recreational importance of the Peak-Speedwell system to the nation - it seemed a bit overblown initially, but then I thought sod it - it's just as important a factor as any other in Castleton that they might be considering. From our perch high up on Longcliffe yesterday, we could see that yet again the field beyond Goosehill Hall was doing a brisk trade in 'overflow' parking again - at least 100 cars. I struggle to see where they would all fit if that weren't available, even if the metering is re-imposed. Obviously Peak Cavern car park is available, with a discount on the parking charge if you visit the showcaves, but if that guy only charges £3 instead of £4...

Offline droid

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • WMRG
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2016, 06:28:26 pm »

Can I retain some credibility by pointing out that Barnsley is NORTH of Derby, not E/W of it?

I'm not sure you can.
You might want to re-read and re-think kay's post.


Rats......!
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline cooleycr

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2016, 01:56:40 pm »
If all else fails, lets "install" some Greater Crested Newts or some bat roosts where the parking meters are intended to be fitted and then see what happens!

Sadly I can only see that this "proposal" is in fact a foregone conclusion and that the best that we (that is cavers, climbers, walkers, cyclists, shoppers etc that visit Castleton) can persuade the DCC (as opposed to the DCC!) to increase the parking timeslots to something realistic - as in all day on the Buxton/Mam Tor road and keep it to a reasonable cost, as Phil says previously, you can currently park for £3 in a field so who is going to pay more for an official spot...
TSG

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5315
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2016, 09:25:39 am »
There is still time to send in objections (the deadline is tomorrow; Friday 2nd September). Give solid reasons and email to:

netmanadmin@derbyshire.gov.uk

This is your chance to influence the outcome. Please do help.

Offline alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1835
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2016, 10:20:11 am »
It works, they acknowledged my email within 24 hours (was probably 18hrs- as I sent it in the evening).

Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • CBC Hacksaw Officer
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2016, 11:54:32 am »
Just fill them with bolting resin. Make sure you wear a burka, because they will possibly put cameras on them.

Offline bograt

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3565
  • Speliodecrepit
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2016, 12:07:25 pm »
I fancy Cool Hand Lukes approach:-

Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment

Online AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2016, 01:53:23 pm »
Several of the meters on the Treak Cliff road have either been broken into or torched in the past, so I can't see that new meters would be any less prone to such attention.
Dirty old mines need love too....

 

Main Menu

Forum Home Help Search