Author Topic: Castleton problems  (Read 12965 times)

Offline mch

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2016, 04:21:48 pm »
I fancy Cool Hand Lukes approach:-



 :clap2:

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2016, 04:32:28 pm »
Several of the meters on the Treak Cliff road have either been broken into or torched in the past, so I can't see that new meters would be any less prone to such attention.

Ah But they presumably want to employ some economies of scale, the more meters, the more cost effective it is to send a company to fix them all.

I read a while ago (somewhere on the internet) that DCC made a direct decision not to bother fixing the machines on the treak cliff road, but I assume that they will reinstate them.
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Offline adam

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2016, 05:00:54 pm »
They might not necessarily reinstate them. It would probably be unwise. The machines on the Treak Cliff road are much more vulnerable to vandalism than new ones in Castleton village would be. Further, charging for parking along that section of road was pointless anyway.

I can see some logic in introducing parking charges in the centre, provided there is free parking outside. This puts centre space at a premium and theoretically reduces congestion.

Offline kay

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2016, 07:38:06 pm »
I can see some logic in introducing parking charges in the centre, provided there is free parking outside. This puts centre space at a premium and theoretically reduces congestion.

A particular problem with these proposals seems to be the lack of all-day parking. The suggestion seems to be that the main car park is not adequate, and the road-side parking is to be limited to 4hrs or less.


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2016, 09:23:07 am »
There is still time to send in objections (the deadline is tomorrow; Friday 2nd September). Give solid reasons and email to:

netmanadmin@derbyshire.gov.uk

This is your chance to influence the outcome. Please do help.

Last chance today . . . .

(I disagree with the sentiments immediately above. There is a finite amount of roadside space to park on in / near the centre of Castleton. Whether or not the DCC is successful in inflicting this extortion, only so many vehicles can park there. Cavers having to park further away is often not practical - due to large amounts of gear having to be moved between vehicles and caving hostel - caving projects. Apart from anything else - you've all paid for that parking space already through your vehicle excise duty. I think it's pretty obvious what's really behind this proposed scheme.)

Offline cooleycr

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2016, 11:26:50 am »
And that finite amount of parking space would be increased if only drivers were to learn how to park - i.e. not leave 1-2 metres front and back, the number of times I have driven around the circuit looking for a space only to be left fuming by this ignorance, if I had a Smart car I could easily park it in some of the gaps I have seen recently, (not that @ 6'4" I would easily fit in one!) I have been tempted to leave parking advice notices or parallel park bridging the gap so that the other cars cannot get out but don't wish to upset the actual locals...
TSG

Offline adam

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2016, 02:53:29 pm »
Apart from anything else - you've all paid for that parking space already through your vehicle excise duty.

Vehicle excise duty goes into general taxation not a restricted 'roads fund', so the notion that drivers own the roads because they pay for them is a bit of a fallacy.

I don't like the proposed scheme btw. It seems to aim to tie up all the available parking in the village and offer no alternative for free/long stay parking. Apart from the impact on cavers it will definitely hurt the shops. Last weekend I intended to go shopping in Keswick but sacked it off cos I couldn't find free parking. Maybe I'm just a tight bastard but I don't like paying for parking - it only encourages this sort of nonsense.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2016, 03:12:18 pm »
Last weekend I intended to go shopping in Keswick but sacked it off cos I couldn't find free parking.

Same in Kirby Lonsdale and Settle. I've ended up using a space in the booth's car park in both.

One to get a selfie with a biker where I ended up buying lunch and dinner at booth's so that's fair.

the other to get breakfast, where I just went in and bought a 40p Independent newspaper! thanks for the Car parking :)

Pitlamp was right, back in the day, it was probably a tied fund. but Adam's right now, although in leased cars they still sometimes refer to the old term of "Road Fund Licence".
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Offline alastairgott

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2016, 03:15:56 pm »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Fund

Hypothecated apparently means pledged money by law to a specific purpose.

Quote
The Road Fund was a British Government fund designated to pay for the building and maintenance of the United Kingdom road network. Its income came originally from vehicle excise duty, until that ceased to be hypothecated for roads use in 1936, and then from government grants. It was created by the Roads Act 1920 and Finance Act 1920, and was wound up in Miscellaneous Financial Provisions Act of 1955.

The Road Fund is notable as one of the few beneficiaries of hypothecated taxation in British history, and is the root of a popular misconception that vehicle excise duty (especially when referred to as road tax) is still hypothecated. Between 1920 and 1936 the vehicle licence (tax disc) was officially known as the "Road Fund Licence", a term which is still in colloquial use today.
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2016, 08:55:06 pm »
Yeah - I've heard all the convoluted excuses about road tax supposedly not being road tax. But you have to pay the tax to have your car on the road. So that's, er, obviously road tax. Don't let them con you.

(I have absolutely no objection to paying my road tax incidentally; I get something for it in return. But I do object to getting screwed by some council for absolutely no good reason.)

The guff the DCC produced simply said the cut off date for objections is 2nd September. They'll obviously not be looking at this until Monday morning. So, as I type, I reckon you've still got just over 3 hours to get those objections in.

This is the thin end of a very nasty wedge. Nip it in the bud now - or it'll only get worse.

Offline blackholesun

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2016, 09:53:25 pm »
(Off topic here)

Pitlamp - It's not a road tax.

No, you don't need to pay VED to have your car on the road. Not if it produces <100g of CO2 per km.

It pays for the roads no more directly than it pays for the NHS care of those affected by the pollution. In fact, it'd be more sensible to call it an emissions tax as that is what it is linked to. However, that would still be wrong. It's just a tax, like all the others.

Churchill: "Entertainments may be taxed; public houses may be taxed...and the yield devoted to the general revenue. But motorists are to be privileged for all time to have the tax on motors devoted to roads? This is an outrage upon...common sense."

I wouldn't normally comment on a seemingly minor point, but this near 100 year old misunderstanding is still shouted out windows at cyclists and pedestrians by drivers who believe, partly due to paying VED, that they should have exclusive rights to the road. This attitude can allow some to adopt an even more callous attitude to the safety of those not in armoured metal containers by thinking that they have no right be there in the first place.

Offline robjones

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #61 on: September 02, 2016, 10:24:46 pm »
Bicycles (and horses, pedestrians, pogo sticks etc etc) pay exactly the same VED as other forms of road transport that produce <100g CO2 per km.

And the great majority of cyclists probably also own a car and most will have already paid VED on that form of transport...

VED is, I agree, something in the nature of a vehicle emissions tax. It is also something in the nature of a wear-and tear on the highway surface sort of tax - only the graduated nature of it over penalises lightweight vehicles and is proportionately much lower for very large / heavy vehicles.

VED would be much better abolished and merged into general taxation.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2016, 08:07:24 am »
I really don't want to get into an argument with spokies - that's not at all what this topic is about.

As far as large numbers of the road tax payers are concerned, it's a road tax.

Anyway, this is immaterial now as the deadline for objections has passed. So I don't intend to contribute further to this one. I just hope enough cavers have made the small effort to do their bit for common sense.


Offline pwhole

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2016, 12:12:53 pm »
At our monthly meeting last night we discussed this, and it appears that Hope and Bradwell are also on the list for this 'initiative' - I don't have any documents yet, but I'm sure they'll be made available soon. Of course, there are plenty of (usually empty) fields around these two villages too, so I can see a £3 'overflow parking' scheme becoming quite popular, especially if a ride into town on a hay-wagon is thrown in to induce the fatties.

I would have thought the best alternative solution (from the council's perspective) would be to buy another nearby field, tarmac it and turn it into another car-park, doubling or tripling capacity, and then reduce the overall parking fees by half to increase demand. So you get an hour for 50p, two hours for a quid, and a full day for £3. If farmers in an area like that can suddenly drop 300 cars in on any day, then it suggests to me that their sheep have far too much grazing land for their actual needs, and it would be better used for the genuine economic interest of the town, which is flogging ice-cream, beer, earrings, and (more importantly to us) getting them into the showcaves.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2016, 06:14:06 pm »
Bradwell and Hope too? It's like a creeping cancer isn't it?
How long will it be before all our favourite spots become no go areas?

Why can't they just leave things as they are? I've always been fond of buying Christmas presents in Castleton but I'll not be in future if I'm expected to waste money in a parking meter unnecessarily.

Anyway, let's see what the outcome is. Anyone know when it'll be announced?

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2016, 07:55:56 pm »
John, you could always park in't George and partake of some refreshment.

On December 11th we sing the village carols there.
Mrs Trellis
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North Wales

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2016, 07:32:55 am »
I had a mis-spent youth in't George . . . .  ;)

Offline Moose

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2016, 10:48:21 am »
As far as large numbers of the road tax payers are concerned, it's a road tax.

What you need Pitlamp is to own a vehicle where VED doesn't apply  :-\

Online nickwilliams

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2016, 11:01:25 am »
 :)
"Economics is simply the branch of sociology that deals with people trading items and the fact that they use more numbers does not make it anymore of a science."

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2016, 08:00:42 pm »
Yeah - I used to. Hope you're looking after her.  :thumbsup:

Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2016, 09:25:32 am »
If parking's a problem there, you can easily go to the Mendips instead. Here to help...
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Offline 2xw

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2016, 01:40:53 pm »
If parking's a problem there, you can easily go to the Mendips instead. Here to help...

What would we do two weeks later when we'd finished it all?  ;D

Offline NewStuff

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2016, 02:37:42 pm »
go to the Mendips instead. Here to help...

Ewwww.... The Mendips? *shudders*
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Offline droid

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2016, 03:36:47 pm »
If parking's a problem there, you can easily go to the Mendips instead. Here to help...

What would we do two weeks later when we'd finished it all?  ;D

Drink a gallon of Roger Wilkins' cider and you'll forget everything.....
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Offline steviet_scg

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Re: Castleton problems
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2016, 03:57:06 pm »
[quote name="tony from suffolk" post=267598 timestamp=1473063932]
If parking's a problem there, you can easily go to the Mendips instead. Here to help...
[/quote]

What would we do two weeks later when we'd finished it all?  ;D

Start digging ....

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