Banksy - artist or vandal?.
I would also argue for this being a case of education over prosecution. I realise that this is damage etc but it looks like a bunch of young guys who've got off their arses and gone and done something! Simply not knowing any better they've scratched their names into the walls. Bring em into the fold and try to educate them a little and you might end up with a bunch of younger cavers in the throws of club caving as well as avoiding repeat issues.
I don't like the tone of a lot of this. I don't know enough about this incident yet to make any sort of judgement.Can you all say that you have never scratched on a cave wall? I know I have and it is documented in caving literature where and why I did it.If we find out who they are I think it just might be best dealt with by giving them a friendly invitation to go caving with a club.
:clap2:the tone of the thread is in a much better place (until kenliworth comes along )it might be an idea for somone to get in touch with them on facebook(im not on it) and give them a gentle nudge in the right direction or point them to this thread so they can see for themselves how points of view have changed
Quote from: cavemanmike on January 16, 2017, 05:17:22 pm :clap2:the tone of the thread is in a much better place (until kenliworth comes along )it might be an idea for somone to get in touch with them on facebook(im not on it) and give them a gentle nudge in the right direction or point them to this thread so they can see for themselves how points of view have changedI've done both.Hasten to add, it was well received and simply a case of not knowing it was taboo. Very apologetic etc
Certainly wouldn't have had permits!
Quote from: mikem on January 16, 2017, 11:02:25 amCertainly wouldn't have had permits!although whether they need permits or not remains legally unclear, of course, so probably a bad thing to worry about :P
I would also argue for this being a case of education over prosecution.
Permits are stupid.
" also scratched my name and the date on the wall in part of the GG system"Why?
Graffiti is one thing, going poorly equipped into a system with several non-obvious dangers is another. There is the drop on the left just as you get to the squeeze through to the top of the main Bar Pot shaft, where the traverse line normally starts.There is the drop on the left just before you get to SE Pot, which now has scaffold bars across it, after a previous incident.And the drop into SE Pot itself as you scramble along the ledges.I've personally had to wait at the bottom of the top pitch of Bar while someone got themselves stuck. Another caver turned up and I led him out through Small Mammal and we surfaced just as they were extracted.Education is a must before they get themselves into serious trouble.
I wonder how many times they banged their heads?
I'm not too sure where to start with this one as it's been a little overwhelming reading all the comments both on facebook and on the forum. I tried to make an account on the forum but there seems to be some kind of validation system so I've chosen you as you seem pretty human and understanding. I suppose it would make sense to give my viewpoint and then maybe people will realise where I'm coming from.Me and my brother's have always been the outdoorsy type people, always willing to go out and try stuff out. About a year ago we went up to Malham cove in the morning to watch the sunrise. Up there we saw a slackline across the cove and we thought," that looks ace", so we went out and we bought ourselves a slackline and learning the skills from the internet, as most people do these days.Around a month ago, the same thing sort of happened. We went out for a walk to Gaping Gill and was blown away by it. We ended up looking around crevices as you do, just exploring the area. We came across a hole,(to which we now know is called Bar Pot) and saw the anchors in the wall. Instinct was to look down, we realised we would need some sort of rigging equipment to get down there.Thats's where youtube comes in, I know it's probably frowned upon using youtube to learn things but we were curious on how we would be able to decend and ascend the hole. Had a lovely time at GoOutdoors getting "all the gear" (still no idea).We came back after practicing what we had learnt and descended down the first drop and carefully made our way downwards until we found the larger 30M drop. Gutted yet amazed we headed home and left it for yet another day.After another trip to go outdoors we arrived again, this time with more rigging equipment, It's probably not the best of ideas returning over and over after realising we are still yet unequipped but this all added to the excitement when we did return with enough equipment for the decent. We lowered ourselves down one by one and then began to head to Gill. We crawled through various tunnels until we heard the roar of Gill and finally got there and felt a real sense of achievement, We looked around and found loads of stals. I was saddened to see that some had been snapped off, maybe by accident or on purpose but nether the less it was a shame.On our way back we noticed the amount of engravings saying which way was back. We then reached part of the passage where we could stand for a while and take a breather. As we were doing so we noticed that other people had engraved their names around this area of the passage and so there assumed that it must be where people engrave their initials. We also took part in this. I made sure that I did it out of the way others engravings as I didn't want to ruin an old marking. I'm not one to post everything on social media as I think it stops it from being special. We carried on our journey and returned home.This morning my friend sent me the link to the UKcaving forum showing what we had done. I've been reading the updates on this throughout the day and taken into consideration every comment. Some are quite humbling, especially the opportunity to go with and gather some caving experience - despite doing what has upset a large amount of people from the caving community. I know the most sincere apology wouldn't change the circumstances because what's done is done. I can also tell that there's a lot of understanding people out there too who don't know where the line is drawn. We didn't even know there was a line, we didn't know what the SSSI is, who Natural England are, that you needed a permit to go caving. We literally just saw a hole and decided we wanted to go down it.Hope this is readable as I'm tired yet unable to sleep trying to get this of my chest.Thank you!
Can't really argue with that.
They are old enough to be out on their own, fit and able enough (if they did use knots rather than jammers) and organised enough to get there and get underground (more than could be said for a few trips I've "organised").Apart from the graffiti I think it was a creditable achievement and it would be unfair to suggest to them that luck played more of a part in their success and survival than it does in any serious caving trip.
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