Author Topic: Anyone know who these four might be??  (Read 9634 times)

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2017, 08:23:37 am »
I think that's the best trip report by a caver that I've ever read on this forum.

Give the guys a prize.

Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2017, 08:25:39 am »
Really commendable he has taken the time to reply on the forum with his justification, agree with Estelle that they are the kind of young lads you would want in your club

Offline Fulk

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2017, 08:52:06 am »
Well done ah147 to follow up this 'story'; I take it you'll make sure that the positive comments on here get back to the lads concerned.

To get to Main Chamber the way they did takes guts and initiative – good for them. (And did they really use knots?)

Offline David Rose

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2017, 08:57:56 am »
These guys are exactly what the caving world needs. They have determination, guts, and a sense of adventure. I'd happily take them caving any time. Brilliant effort to descend Bar Pot, reach the main chamber, and get out safely, and obviously they have apologised for adding their names to existing graffiti. (Though even graffiti, as the amazing 18th century inscriptions in the Speedwell streamway demonstrate, can have its place).

When I was a teenager, I slowly explored much of Swildons with mates the same age, on trips made after hitching rides from London. It was incredibly exciting. This superb trip report takes me back to those distant days.

Offline Badlad

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2017, 09:35:13 am »
Guys - that's a really fine trip you had there.  Many of our best known cavers started out in similar fashion.  I know I did and it led to a lifetime travelling and exploring caves around the world - and a well paid job in rope access.

I suggest you contact someone like the Bradford Pothole club who have a lot to do with Gaping Gill http://www.bpc-cave.org.uk/wp/ I'm not a member myself but they always seem a welcoming can-do bunch.  There are other clubs too of course.

There shouldn't be any problem registering to use the forum  Give me an email on ukcavemail@gmail.com and I'll try to sort it out.   :thumbsup:

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2017, 09:47:45 am »
Well said, but they don't really strike me as club types. Personally I think they'd be wasted on a club.

From a training point of view of course I can appreciate the referral.   

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2017, 10:11:53 am »
Quote
.... We didn't even know there was a line, we didn't know what the SSSI is, who Natural England are, that you needed a permit to go caving. We literally just saw a hole and decided we wanted to go down it.


This goes back to a point I was making a long time back when CNCC permits (and other areas) were "under fire".  You could not get a permit if you were not in a BCA affiliated club (or something like that) and I posed the question "what if you don't know about the BCA?". I was met with many rebuttals stating "it's not hard to find out"  etc etc etc.  My reply back was "How do you know to "find out" if you don't know there is something to find out?" 

Like Donald Rumsfeld famously said with the Iraq problem;

There are things we know
There are things we know we don't know
But there are things we don't know that we don't know

I hope, now, the reality of that problem is visible and those of us who (for whatever reason) micro-manage holes learn from this just as these lads have done.

Ian
A door, once opened, may be stepped through in either direction.

Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2017, 11:36:43 am »
Why, in the name of god has this not got a gate on it, an approved access officer and a necklace of padlocks belonging to approved authorities?

If you've failed to gate a cave, you are totally responsible for this sort of craziness and damage that happens.

GET IT GATED NOOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!! :furious:


Offline Mattrees

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2017, 12:05:02 pm »
Quote
After another trip to go outdoors we arrived again, this time with more rigging equipment, It's probably not the best of ideas returning over and over after realising we are still yet unequipped but this all added to the excitement when we did return with enough equipment for the decent. We lowered ourselves down one by one and then began to head to Gill. We crawled through various tunnels until we heard the roar of Gill and finally got there and felt a real sense of achievement, We looked around and found loads of stals. I was saddened to see that some had been snapped off, maybe by accident or on purpose but nether the less it was a shame.

 :clap2:

I think what you did was the best of ideas. Genuinely exciting to read, many of us spend a whole caving career trying to recapture that sense of exploration. Well done for getting yourselves to the main chamber.

There are a bunch of other cavers, club and individuals, who would be excited by your enthusiasm. They can teach you nothing about the spirit of exploration, you've got that in spades, but they could share some of our techniques and practices that would allow you to explore further, in greater safety and with less impact.

When you run out of cave in Yorkshire (!), pop down to the Forest of Dean and get in touch.

Meantime, keep on exploring!

Offline notdavidgilmour

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2017, 12:18:39 pm »
Following on from what Mattrees has said above, If ever you fancy some of the old mines (or caves) in North Wales, give us a shout - these people are very active in North Wales http://www.ucet.org.uk/

What's done is done.  No harm was intended.  It's all part of the history of the cave. ;)
I do it because i can, I can because I want to, I want to because you said I couldn't.

Offline Nigelh

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2017, 12:52:05 pm »
Well done! Well written report and good luck with your future explorations. Stay safe though eh?!

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2017, 12:56:27 pm »
Why, in the name of god has this not got a gate on it, an approved access officer and a necklace of padlocks belonging to approved authorities?

If you've failed to gate a cave, you are totally responsible for this sort of craziness and damage that happens.

GET IT GATED NOOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!! :furious:

Thanks for trying to offer advice but no we won't. We don't gate caves in the North. We generally want to encourage people to go caving so we don't put unnecessary obstacles in their way and do our best to remove obstacles and facilitate caving.

Offline cooleycr

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2017, 01:07:52 pm »
Can't really argue with that.  :beer2:

and who can blame them for assuming that it was just a cavers' thing -  anyone can go into an open cave/mine without any equipment at all and either enjoy the experience or for reasons unknown, trash the place (just look at Suicide in the Peak District).
These lads obviously enjoyed the experience so good on them..
we could get into a right old debate about whose responsibility it is to educate them, should the retailer have asked whether they were suitably trained with such equipment, should all systems be access controlled etc. but that would not be helpful.

Let sleeping dogs lie - they have acknowledged an 'error' and won't do it again.
I am heartened to see that as a community we are welcoming them into the fold.

TSG

Offline ianball11

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2017, 01:23:42 pm »
I have been asked to post this by one of the members of the group on the trip.

As I said earlier, and others have guessed, decent lads who are just having a go to the best of their knowledge and ability. 

Quote

I'm not too sure where to start with this one as it's been a little overwhelming reading all the comments both on facebook and on the forum. I tried to make an account on the forum but there seems to be some kind of validation system so I've chosen you as you seem pretty human and understanding. I suppose it would make sense to give my viewpoint and then maybe people will realise where I'm coming from.

Me and my brother's have always been the outdoorsy type people, always willing to go out and try stuff out. About a year ago we went up to Malham cove in the morning to watch the sunrise. Up there we saw a slackline across the cove and we thought," that looks ace", so we went out and we bought ourselves a slackline and learning the skills from the internet, as most people do these days.

Around a month ago, the same thing sort of happened. We went out for a walk to Gaping Gill and was blown away by it. We ended up looking around crevices as you do, just exploring the area. We came across a hole,(to which we now know is called Bar Pot) and saw the anchors in the wall. Instinct was to look down, we realised we would need some sort of rigging equipment to get down there.

Thats's where youtube comes in, I know it's probably frowned upon using youtube to learn things but we were curious on how we would be able to decend and ascend the hole. Had a lovely time at GoOutdoors getting "all the gear" (still no idea).

We came back after practicing what we had learnt and descended down the first drop and carefully made our way downwards until we found the larger 30M drop. Gutted yet amazed we headed home and left it for yet another day.

After another trip to go outdoors we arrived again, this time with more rigging equipment, It's probably not the best of ideas returning over and over after realising we are still yet unequipped but this all added to the excitement when we did return with enough equipment for the decent. We lowered ourselves down one by one and then began to head to Gill. We crawled through various tunnels until we heard the roar of Gill and finally got there and felt a real sense of achievement, We looked around and found loads of stals. I was saddened to see that some had been snapped off, maybe by accident or on purpose but nether the less it was a shame.

On our way back we noticed the amount of engravings saying which way was back. We then reached part of the passage where we could stand for a while and take a breather. As we were doing so we noticed that other people had engraved their names around this area of the passage and so there assumed that it must be where people engrave their initials. We also took part in this. I made sure that I did it out of the way others engravings as I didn't want to ruin an old marking. I'm not one to post everything on social media as I think it stops it from being special. We carried on our journey and returned home.

This morning my friend sent me the link to the UKcaving forum showing what we had done. I've been reading the updates on this throughout the day and taken into consideration every comment. Some are quite humbling, especially the opportunity to go with and gather some caving experience - despite doing what has upset a large amount of people from the caving community. I know the most sincere apology wouldn't change the circumstances because what's done is done. I can also tell that there's a lot of understanding people out there too who don't know where the line is drawn. We didn't even know there was a line, we didn't know what the SSSI is, who Natural England are, that you needed a permit to go caving. We literally just saw a hole and decided we wanted to go down it.

Hope this is readable as I'm tired yet unable to sleep trying to get this of my chest.

Thank you!


That's a cracking read, spirit of adventure is enticing.

Offline SamT

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2017, 01:33:14 pm »
Why, in the name of god has this not got a gate on it, an approved access officer and a necklace of padlocks belonging to approved authorities?

If you've failed to gate a cave, you are totally responsible for this sort of craziness and damage that happens.

GET IT GATED NOOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!! :furious:

Just ignore the Troll...

Offline royfellows

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2017, 01:44:57 pm »
Just a quick comment

The lads concerned are young and keen and obviously have the right attitude.

I was young and keen at one time and did leave the odd "RF" around, now, I am old and keen and leave nothing.

I know that mining needs new people who are young and keen, cant speak for caving though.
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2017, 01:48:09 pm »
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the preserved inscription made by Jamie ... on one of his early exploits before he became famous for cycling to the South Pole then going on to descend the North Ridge of K2 on a child's sledge provided by his main sponsor GoOutdoors - all done wearing the same T shirt.

Offline menacer

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2017, 01:50:10 pm »
Why, in the name of god has this not got a gate on it, an approved access officer and a necklace of padlocks belonging to approved authorities?

If you've failed to gate a cave, you are totally responsible for this sort of craziness and damage that happens.

GET IT GATED NOOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!! :furious:

Just ignore the Troll...

But it was funny....well i thought it was...

Liked Ians point too.
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Offline Pegasus

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2017, 01:58:15 pm »
.... really hope that they get involved with the caving community and do some more trips,

Me too.

Guys, hope you join the forum - lots of support, help and advice to be found here  :)

Remember, we're not all of us perfect ourselves - I cringe when I think about dumping carbide underground, didn't know any better  :(

...and there's your first question, 'what the heck is carbide?!'  ;D

Pegasus

Offline Dgreenwell

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2017, 02:26:45 pm »
It has been really interesting reading this thread.

On one of my very first trips I thumbed my initials into some clay as I didn't really know any better. I was told on that trip that was something I shouldn't do and now, 5 years later and with much more experience, I occasionally tell new cavers not to do the same thing. To me it seems part of the wider learning process that is key to caving and getting the most out of the activity that we all love.

The trip these guys had sounds great and their sense of adventure is evident, a sense of adventure that is hopefully still within all of us. Hopefully these guys keep having great adventures and, if they fancy it, join a caving club and get stuck in!  :beer2:

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2017, 02:32:24 pm »
and get stuck in! 

Nooooo, we don't want them getting stuck  :o

Offline Dgreenwell

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2017, 02:33:59 pm »
Fair point, my wording on that might not have been the best!

Offline David Rose

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2017, 03:40:28 pm »
It would be quite a challenge to gate Gaping Gill main shaft. And how on earth would you open it?

Offline owd git

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #73 on: January 17, 2017, 04:23:18 pm »
I for one, and it is my opinion only, don't feel the need to be 'in a club' I do .however believe in instruction/ learning good SAFE practice. This very forum is more than adequate to provide any info' guidance and opinion. Tho for many  a club is the way to progress in all types of activity,sport lunchon, fitness, BDSM sex activity etc'
Get on the forum then decide ( I advise the latter  ;) )
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Offline andrewmc

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2017, 04:40:55 pm »
It would be quite a challenge to gate Gaping Gill main shaft. And how on earth would you open it?

In the same way the CNCC secret headquarter (bolting division) gate opens, obviously...

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