Author Topic: Anyone know who these four might be??  (Read 9749 times)

Offline Pegasus

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Anyone know who these four might be??
« on: January 15, 2017, 12:11:32 pm »
Photos posted by Inglesport on their facebook page today with the caption:

Graffiti found in Gaping Gill on the 14/01/17.
PLEASE SHARE
Take nothing but memories and leave only footprints.


Anyone know any more?

   

       
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 10:28:37 pm by Pegasus »

Offline todcaver

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 01:06:30 pm »
 Facebook ?
Latest trip reports for that date ?
Uni / clubs
 :spank:
Hopefully they are struck with bad karma for at least a year  :lol:

Online aricooperdavis

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 01:54:28 pm »
Where was this in the system?

I'd be very saddened if this was done by members of a caving club (uni or otherwise)!

Online cavemanmike

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 04:09:36 pm »
could some clever "bca" nerd not narrow  down connor(unusual name) and jamie  m .
then contact the appropriate club to see who has visited gg. hopefully someone has already thought of this and is busy sluthing away

Offline braveduck

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 04:14:09 pm »
Interestingly ,Inglesport Facebook page where this was first reported are now getting some inappropriate posts almost condoning this ! :( 

Online aricooperdavis

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 04:48:33 pm »
I do find things like this interesting. There's a fascinating book by the journalist Jon Ronson called "so you've been publicly shamed" which looks at how the internet is used to administer "justice".

Perhaps clubs should have a system set-up in advance to deal with this kind of (very minor) vandalism so that we don't accidentally fuel any witch hunts. Having one individual speak with those involved would probably be the most effective way at preventing this sort of thing in a fair way.

It makes me think of the chamber in Eglwys where, along with the newer stuff, you can find >300 year old graffiti. It's absolutely amazing to think of cavers scratching their names into the rock all that time ago, and I think that there is some value to that old social history. The issue here is where and how it's been done, whilst the behaviour in the chamber in Eglwys seems to have been allowed by some consensus.

Online RichardB1983

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2017, 05:02:12 pm »
I think I've found who it is: a quick Facebook search has revealed photos of the presumed culprits standing in front of their handiwork and there is a Connor, Ricki and Jamie in their friends list.

Certainly doesn't look like they're club cavers: no helmets / oversuits etc.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 05:11:37 pm by RichardB1983 »

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 05:20:31 pm »
Could I propose that a new position on UKc be created, to be known as "Investigator" ....

Could I also propose that RichardB be appointed to the said position?

The duties would include looking into vandalism and identifying culprits.

He seems to be rather good at it.

 ;)

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Offline alanw

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2017, 05:25:25 pm »
He's got a friend called Charlie too. He's got a Facebook photo titled "Gaping gill cave" showing him dangling on a green (dynamic) rope from the tree. Several other photos clearly of GG.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2017, 05:31:46 pm »
Hopefully, Natural England will get involved,  for it is they who are responsible for SSSI protection enforcement.

Online RichardB1983

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2017, 05:33:26 pm »
He's got a friend called Charlie too. He's got a Facebook photo titled "Gaping gill cave" showing him dangling on a green (dynamic) rope from the tree. Several other photos clearly of GG.

That's how I found it: a Facebook search for public photos of "Gaping Gill" had this lad's photo on the first page: look about 10 seconds to find.

Offline Pete K

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2017, 05:37:41 pm »
Hopefully, Natural England will get involved,  for it is they who are responsible for SSSI protection enforcement.
Can I suggest someone local takes some screen grabs and passes the info on to the correct authority at NE to deal with.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2017, 05:41:09 pm »
Hopefully, Natural England will get involved,  for it is they who are responsible for SSSI protection enforcement.
Can I suggest someone local takes some screen grabs and passes the info on to the correct authority at NE to deal with.

I have taken some screenshots. Let's not burn them at the stake though... leaves a terrible mess.

Offline Pete K

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2017, 05:43:55 pm »
Indeed, correct authority as opposed to pitch-fork wielding mob.

Offline alanw

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2017, 06:09:39 pm »
Hopefully, Natural England will get involved,  for it is they who are responsible for SSSI protection enforcement.
Can I suggest someone local takes some screen grabs and passes the info on to the correct authority at NE to deal with.

I've just sent an e-mail to the Reserve Manager/ Cave Conservation Adviser

Offline mrodoc

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2017, 08:41:24 pm »
I notice Connor comes from Ziimbabwe - perhaps they do things differently there ;)

Offline Robert Scott

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2017, 11:08:00 pm »
I agree with Mr Gardner. This is something for Natural England and the estate managers to deal with. Perhaps to the maximum extent of the law as an example to discourage others.

Online Wayland Smith

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2017, 06:58:23 am »
Heads on pikes next to the path walking up tends to warn others.  :o  ::)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2017, 07:57:35 am »
Where in the GG system is it?

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 08:07:23 am »
I don't like the tone of a lot of this. I don't know enough about this incident yet to make any sort of judgement.

Can you all say that you have never scratched on a cave wall? I know I have and it is documented in caving literature where and why I did it.

If we find out who they are I think it just might be best dealt with by giving them a friendly invitation to go caving with a club.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2017, 08:14:21 am »
On balance I think I tend to agree with the spirit of what Simon suggests above.

Online cavemanmike

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2017, 08:20:22 am »
Simon has a point, if you look all there photos they seem the outdoor  adventurous type who just fancied trying caving and got it wrong. With a bit of education they will probably become good cavers and mortified at what they did

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2017, 08:21:59 am »
On balance I think I tend to agree with the spirit of what Simon suggests above.

Thanks, I would expect you to John.

I also scratched my name and the date on the wall in part of the GG system. It was later published in caving literature that I had done so and nobody has criticised me for doing it.

Online MJenkinson

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2017, 08:58:15 am »
" also scratched my name and the date on the wall in part of the GG system"


Why?

Offline cooleycr

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Re: Anyone know who these four might be??
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2017, 09:49:37 am »
For f****s sake don't let on to Kenilworth, he will go off on one and I worry that the server is getting full already!

Seriously though, a very good point about what is, and what is not, acceptable.
There are many examples of people leaving their mark in caves/mines throughout modern history and we look at their initials (or moniker) and debate who they were, when they were there, what they were doing there etc.
This seems to be generally acceptable whereas nowadays it is considered to be vandalism.

Should Neolithic cave art be removed and the surfaces be restored to their original state or is it acceptable because it is now part of our history?

Banksy - artist or vandal?.
TSG