Author Topic: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!  (Read 913 times)

Offline Spires

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MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« on: September 02, 2019, 11:11:51 pm »
Hi Guys,
I didn't know I was a magician until last Sunday, when I visited Jugholes, Matlock. I was doing a reccy of the 'Lower Series' Upper & Lower entrances for a forthcoming group trip. I had brought a rope for Upper entrance, which I rigged and wanted to make sure it was long enough to reach the bottom of the 7m pitch, which it was. I had put an overhand knot on the end of the rope. A little while later, I pulled the rope up and much to my surprise, there was no knot! Before you ask, nobody was at the bottom of the pitch to undo the knot, I checked. I put another overhand knot on the end of the rope and down the pitch it went for a second time. I pulled the rope up and the knot had started to come undone. Note: The pitch has a series of steps and the rope being pulled over these steps, obviously caused the knot to undo. This has to be the cause, unless there is a knot gremlin in Jugholes!

Has anyone else had a similar experience of knots coming undone, whilst a rope was being pulled up a pitch or climb?

Cheers,
Paul.
 

Offline mikem

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2019, 11:27:10 pm »
Was the knot pulled tight or did it have an open loop in the middle (which is much easier to snag & unroll)?

Offline Mark Wright

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2019, 11:32:33 pm »
This is a well known occurrence in industry and I've had a loosely tied Fig. 8 stopper knot come undone during an abseil down a very wet canyoning pitch near Annecy some years ago.

The IRATA Code of Practice recommends a snuggly tied Half Double Fisherman's tied at least 300mm from the end.

A snuggly tied Fig. 8 would be OK but if ropes are stiff it's unlikely a Fig. 8 would 'Set' correctly and so could work loose in certain conditions.

You would likely get a discrepancy in an IRATA exam if you tied an Overhand knot!

Mark

Offline JoW

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 07:40:04 am »
It is fairly common to tie a knot in the end eg. Figure of 8 on the bight and another about a metre up the rope eg. Single figure of 8 to help mitigate for this problem. I also find a capuchin knot less prone to coming undone and can still be used for joining ropes.

Offline MarkS

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 07:43:13 am »
I used to use a fig 8 on a bight for the end of a rope, as everyone in our club did at that time. After experiencing multiple knots managing to undo themselves between packing and unpacking (generally on thick/stiff rope) I switched to a half double fishermans. Not had any issues since.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 10:10:04 am »
I've had the opposite problem - a single figure of 8 magically appear in a nasogastric tube whilst in someone's stomach. Fortunately it just bounced out.

I also use 'half a double fisherman's', and then use that to join two ropes together (isolated in the loop of an alpine). Also use an alpine as a warning knot.

Offline GT

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2019, 03:29:27 pm »
There was a video that did the rounds a while back with a guy testing various end knots; tying them then vigorously shacking the rope to see if they dropped out. The double barrel knot faired best. If I find it i'll post it here. Also helpful for the odd insomniac...

Offline Fulk

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2019, 04:31:32 pm »
nearlywhite: Why do you 'isolate your half a double fisherman's knot in the loop of an alpine'?

Offline mikem

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2019, 04:37:31 pm »
The "whole" fisherman's would be isolated in the alpine butterfly - presumably so the fisherman's doesn't lock tight.

Offline Fulk

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2019, 07:05:44 pm »
Thank you mikem – that makes sense; so if the butterfly somehow fails (though I don't see why it would), then the fisherman's tightens up – and it's a job for the marlin spike.

Online Pete K

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2019, 07:15:15 pm »
Having the alpine butterfly also gives a loop to attach a cowstail to when performing the knot pass.

Online Boy Engineer

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 08:20:00 pm »
Quote
I've had the opposite problem - a single figure of 8 magically appear in a nasogastric tube whilst in someone's stomach.

Wait until you have the same issue with a urinary catheter. Shaking it out takes on a whole (hole!) new meaning.

Offline AR

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2019, 08:45:50 pm »
You're just taking the piss now....
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Tripod

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2019, 11:06:35 pm »
That is not funny. I had a urinary catheter inserted and it appears possibly for no good reason was to keep it in place for three weeks. I was also prescribed a drug. The first side effect of this drug, as stated on the leaflet to be found in the packet, was "if you have an erection that lasts more than four hours stop taking this medication". In short I lost two week's sleep and after being ignored by medical staff made a formal complaint to the hospital where this occurred. As I say, not funny and as it happened, life changing. I still hope to regain physical health lost as a result of inappropriate treatment and an outdated attitude of a doctor. 

Online Boy Engineer

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2019, 08:38:13 am »
I apologise for the offence caused, and hope that things improve for you. I appreciate that what struck me as an amusing possibility, would be anything but in real life. An object lesson on thinking before posting.
Best wishes. Nick
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 08:50:02 am by Boy Engineer »

Offline NewStuff

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2019, 08:46:26 am »
I had considerably worse than that, and you know what?
It was a funny joke. If you can't laugh at it, you'll rock yourself stupid in a corner crying. Lighten up.
Permission? Wassat den?

Offline BradW

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2019, 09:59:59 am »
 :'( Asking people to lighten up after having a nasty traumatic experience is not helpful. That said, you both have my sympathy, and I trust things are improving. And how does some helpful advice about using a good knot lead to this? We need to just take the advice on board and move on.

Offline Tripod

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Re: MAGIC ROPE TRICK IN JUGHOLES!
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2019, 01:57:36 pm »
No apology necessary Boy Engineer and for yourself and New Stuff it was not as serious a post as it might have looked. There are certainly serious issues involving very poor medical practice and long lasting effects of an unnecessary treatment regime - but - we are in that anatomical region that is a source of humour and of crossed legs and wincing when tales are told. I am sure you can all appreciate the response when I told my male friends what had happened - and no - for anyone else who is thinking along the same lines - I do not have any of those capsules left over  :)