Poll

Which way do you intend to vote in the upcoming general election?

Conservative
16 (14.3%)
Labour
54 (48.2%)
Liberal Democrat
18 (16.1%)
Scottish National Party
0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru
2 (1.8%)
Green Party
11 (9.8%)
Brexit Party
3 (2.7%)
An Independent
1 (0.9%)
Other
7 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Voting closed: December 05, 2019, 09:07:44 am

Author Topic: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?  (Read 2332 times)

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2019, 09:02:15 pm »
Its all my fault. Aren't I a nuisance.

As far as I can tell all you're doing is keeping it in the recent posts...

It is amusing to see someone throw their toys out of the pram at what appears to be the absence of discussion. I'm half minded to engage in discussion out of spite  :lol:

Still good to know what I should post on lamp, mine access and NAMHO threads...

Offline Minion

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2019, 10:53:43 pm »
But the Daily Wail is a crock of sh*t.... :lol: :lol:

There’s a reason it’s referred to as the Daily Fail....

Offline mikem

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2019, 10:53:59 pm »
Not spite, just boredom.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2019, 12:12:06 am »
I can't help but notice that cavers have managed to draw not one but two phalluses (phalli?) in the results bar chart...

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2019, 09:38:28 am »
Quote
Monster Raving Loony?
Where I am it would be nice to have such a progressive organisation standing for election.  Seems there is a choice of:

a) The telling complete porkies party
b) The un-electable shambles party
c) The outrageously fibbing party
d) The two-faced insincere party
e) The feed the electorate bulls**t party

decisions, decisions....  :confused:


Offline Ed

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2019, 11:25:16 am »
misfortune of living in a safe seat so tactical voting is as effective as spoiling your ballot paper in this constituency :furious:

Safe seat, your LUCky!!! Where I have the pleasure of voting has probably been conservative since elections were invented.

AR I raise your 10k Conservative majority with a 14k majority  :'( :'( :'( :blink:

PAH --- raise you 14k to 19,985.

Could be interesting for access as it the big caving area

Offline royfellows

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2019, 11:48:23 am »
Quote
Monster Raving Loony?
Where I am it would be nice to have such a progressive organisation standing for election.  Seems there is a choice of:

a) The telling complete porkies party
b) The un-electable shambles party
c) The outrageously fibbing party
d) The two-faced insincere party
e) The feed the electorate bulls**t party

decisions, decisions....  :confused:

This reminded me of a 4 against one attack at a martial arts club

1 Attacked with a punch to my head
2 Attached with a kick to my stomach
3 Attacked with a round kick to my head
4 Attached with a side kick to my stomach

If these guys were election candidates, which should I vote for?
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline Alex

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2019, 01:30:59 pm »
It sounds like a lot of people won't want to vote on this, I wonder if it will be election with the fewest votes in history. Perhaps another poll....
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Ed

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2019, 02:52:42 pm »
It sounds like a lot of people won't want to vote on this, I wonder if it will be election with the fewest votes in history. Perhaps another poll....

nah -- referendum on whether to have an election

Offline AR

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2019, 02:53:54 pm »
I'm reminded of a Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers episode where Phineas insisted on exercising his democratic right while Freddy and Franklin waited outside in the car. When he eventually emerged from the polling station, they asked him "What took you so long?" and he replied "Sorry guys, I was having trouble finding a candidate who didn't make me want to throw up".
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline royfellows

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2019, 04:59:06 pm »
I'm reminded of a Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers episode where Phineas insisted on exercising his democratic right while Freddy and Franklin waited outside in the car. When he eventually emerged from the polling station, they asked him "What took you so long?" and he replied "Sorry guys, I was having trouble finding a candidate who didn't make me want to throw up".

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I like the way that this thread has gone, I feared for the worst and got the best.
 :thumbsup:
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline JoshW

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2019, 05:18:44 pm »
misfortune of living in a safe seat so tactical voting is as effective as spoiling your ballot paper in this constituency :furious:

Safe seat, your LUCky!!! Where I have the pleasure of voting has probably been conservative since elections were invented.

AR I raise your 10k Conservative majority with a 14k majority  :'( :'( :'( :blink:

PAH --- raise you 14k to 19,985.

Could be interesting for access as it the big caving area

19,985 I raise you 23,484

Offline Brains

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2019, 06:32:53 pm »
I raise you the NHS

Who of you hasnt used it from your birth until now?
Which of you hasnt needed it for your family?
Which of you can afford US style health insurance of medical bills?

Make no mistake, this should be the mater of concern. Use your hard one right to vote

Perhaps when you have to pay huge premiums for rescue insurance - bigger than for alpine trips - you might find it worth talking about then

Politics is in everything and everywhere. Bury your head at your peril.

Offline royfellows

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2019, 07:35:14 pm »
I knew it

Goodbye
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2019, 09:28:15 pm »
Think I might visit a garden centre this weekend.  The wild strawberries are in a trough on the ground and need raising up in case of frost.  Probably the off season for planting more herbs though.
I suppose window boxes or small window sill planters or pots with mini-veg (radish, chantennay carrots, or herbs) could be useful for garden limited environments.
I've also taken the precaution of putting a lump of black tourmaline by the front door to ward off evil spirits (aka politicians).

Offline 2xw

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2019, 11:49:07 pm »
Ok boomers

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2019, 09:39:51 am »
I raise you the NHS

Who of you hasnt used it from your birth until now?
Which of you hasnt needed it for your family?
Which of you can afford US style health insurance of medical bills?

Make no mistake, this should be the mater of concern. Use your hard one right to vote

Perhaps when you have to pay huge premiums for rescue insurance - bigger than for alpine trips - you might find it worth talking about then

Politics is in everything and everywhere. Bury your head at your peril.

I naively don't get it. Give US Pharma full access to the NHS for selling drugs and equipment to. If it's cheaper, we buy it. If it's more expensive, we don't. I could do with someone explaining how they are going to 'buy the NHS' ? (I suppose they could buy up those fantastic Labour PFI contracts but they can do that already?)

Chris.
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Offline 2xw

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2019, 09:57:16 am »
I raise you the NHS

Who of you hasnt used it from your birth until now?
Which of you hasnt needed it for your family?
Which of you can afford US style health insurance of medical bills?

Make no mistake, this should be the mater of concern. Use your hard one right to vote

Perhaps when you have to pay huge premiums for rescue insurance - bigger than for alpine trips - you might find it worth talking about then

Politics is in everything and everywhere. Bury your head at your peril.

I naively don't get it. Give US Pharma full access to the NHS for selling drugs and equipment to. If it's cheaper, we buy it. If it's more expensive, we don't. I could do with someone explaining how they are going to 'buy the NHS' ? (I suppose they could buy up those fantastic Labour PFI contracts but they can do that already?)

Chris.

A good example is that we can use biosimilar drugs to biologics which saves a load of money - but doctors in the US can't because of IP and patents. This is the sort of access the US wants in any trade deal - the problem isn't them being a source of drug purchases but them being the exclusive source. They're also pushing for longer patents which will push up prices.

American gov has made it very clear they want privatisation as part of negotiations - but the NHS has always been cheaper than the American "free" market. So the only place the prices can go is up

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2019, 10:21:00 am »
"Politics"

From the Latin;

Poly~Many
Tics ~ Blood sucking creatures
A door, once opened, may be stepped through in either direction.

Offline darren

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2019, 10:22:15 am »
Previous post is a perfect example of FACTBOMBING. Lots of big sounding scientific words and opinions used to support an opinion with no context or references.

Given up fact checking it, but found this

https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/many-biosimilars-approved-united-states-3463281/

No, I'm playing all the right notes

Offline 2xw

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2019, 11:38:16 am »
Previous post is a perfect example of FACTBOMBING. Lots of big sounding scientific words and opinions used to support an opinion with no context or references.

Given up fact checking it, but found this

https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/many-biosimilars-approved-united-states-3463281/



Here's some sources
If US can sideline NICE they will profit
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-us-uk-trade-deal-boris-johnson-tories-nhs-drug-prices-chlorine-chicken-a9221801.html
US pays 3 times more for drugs
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pharmaceuticals-usa-comparison-idUSKCN0S61KU20151012
Some good detail
https://www.ft.com/content/7795cb64-877d-11e9-97ea-05ac2431f453
NHS to pay more for drugs under new trade deal (from the times, you can't say I'm not balanced)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-to-pay-more-for-drugs-under-us-trade-deal-275jmq6m6
And finally, a fullfact article addressing some of labours lies/hyperbole
https://fullfact.org/health/500-million-nhs-drug-prices/

To summarise: the NHS won't stop being free but opening it up to US companies (more so than t already is) will make it more expensive. Lots of politicians of all stripes say it never will be and I'll leave it up to you to decide how much you'll trust them.

Offline darren

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2019, 12:39:24 pm »
I think you are getting newspapers confused with reliable sources.

The only source I would trust in your list is Fullfact. One of my go to sites for the truth. More or less is also good along with channel 4 fact check.  Just about everything said by political parties and their supporting newspapers  is either warped or just lies.
No, I'm playing all the right notes

Offline droid

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2019, 02:35:49 pm »
"Politics"

From the Latin;

Poly~Many
Tics ~ Blood sucking creatures

I always thought a 'tic' was an involuntary muscular spasm


 :lol:
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline mikem

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2019, 03:08:51 pm »
Given the voting turnout for the last election was almost 70%, the poll (& comments) would suggest that cavers aren't representative!

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2019, 03:53:29 pm »
Given the voting turnout for the last election was almost 70%, the poll (& comments) would suggest that cavers aren't representative!

Given the SNP are on a solid zero you might be right! Though this is a rather unscientific poll.
The results of the YouGov #GE2019 MRP model:

Con – 359 seats / 43% vote share         vs 13.3%
Lab – 211 / 32%                                  vs 45.6%
LD – 13 / 14%                                     vs 17.8%
SNP – 43 / 3%                                     vs 0%
Plaid – 4 / 1%                                      vs 2.2%
Green – 1 / 3%                                    vs 10%
Brexit Party – 0 / 3%                            vs 3.3%

The only one tallying with the population is the Brexit Party - though the Lib Dems aren't massively off. Labour have had 45% of the vote historically under Wilson and Attlee, and not far off with Blair.

The (4 main) caving areas from a rough eyeballing would be 7 labour, 4 tory (skewed a touch by south wales!)