Author Topic: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside  (Read 2802 times)

Offline Fjell

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2020, 10:25:19 am »
Catching the virus wandering around the great outdoors does seem somewhat unlikely, certainly compared to wandering around towns and cities- or, God forbid, public transport and offices.

It’s also now becoming apparent that obesity and lack of fitness are big red flags for older people. Keeping everyone inside for half a year or more is likely to be bad news.

We are doing a 5-10 km hill walk every day. Large number of others are doing the same from the village. Plenty of 70 to 80+ year olds chugging up the hill too.

Unless people intend to stay indoors until a vaccine appears (and when is that?) there is little choice but to accept you might get it at some point. It doesn’t look like the NHS is actually going to collapse, so that’s just how it is. The country cannot survive with locked borders and no-one working for years to come. If we do that, millions will have their lives destroyed - it’s already happening as thousands of companies start to collapse. And that’s before the government even withdraws support, which it will have to do well before a vaccine appears or go broke.

The whole population should be sent on compulsory hill walks.

Offline Fjell

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2020, 10:55:18 am »
We have four parents in their 80’s and 90’s. The logic dictates they will be locked up until a vaccine appears. For some or even all of them this will be the rest of their lives.
My mother has already said she will give it a few weeks then she is going to start going about her normal business and damn their eyes. For her it’s just not worth it. She’d rather take a 30% chance of being dead.

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2020, 10:59:35 am »
According to the Guardian today:

Quote
The briefing to officers, which they will be expected to follow, says: “The coronavirus act and coronavirus regulations do not explicitly confer any powers on police officers to stop vehicles.”

It says officers can use the road traffic act to stop vehicles for any reason, and this could lead to offences under the coronavirus act being detected.

But then adds: “Use your judgment and common sense; for example, people will want to exercise locally and may need to travel to do so, we don’t want the public sanctioned for travelling a reasonable distance to exercise. Road checks on every vehicle is equally disproportionate.

Offline darren

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2020, 11:25:18 am »
We have four parents in their 80’s and 90’s. The logic dictates they will be locked up until a vaccine appears. For some or even all of them this will be the rest of their lives.
My mother has already said she will give it a few weeks then she is going to start going about her normal business and damn their eyes. For her it’s just not worth it. She’d rather take a 30% chance of being dead.

And possibly kill several others in he process
No, I'm playing all the right notes

Offline Fjell

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2020, 11:34:42 am »
Better dead than duffers was always her motto.

I was once left sitting in the car when she popped into a souk in Iran to pick up some nan. She had forgotten she was wearing micro shorts and a bikini top and got arrested for lewdness. She was taken to the police station where she invited the chief of police to dinner, and who sent her home in his car. I got home somewhat later.

Offline Stuart France

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2020, 11:05:27 am »
The Ramblers website, and others with outdoors interests, have published the joint open letter to the minister setting out the concerns of 16 member organisations of the Outdoor Alliance about the "inconsistent wholesale closure of open spaces and footpaths" forcing people to take exercise indoors or in more confined areas that risks enhanced virus transmission, vigilantism, stigmatism, and other unintended unwanted outcomes.  For example:

https://www.ramblers.org.uk/en/news/latest-news/2020/march/outdoor-alliance-wales-paths-and-outdoor-access-closure.aspx

https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2020/03/31/groups-warn-welsh-government-covid-19-measures-risk-stigmatising-outdoor-fans#

Offline kat

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2020, 12:35:15 pm »
Whilst discussing the pros and cons of hill walking in the present situation the current limited resources of the mountain rescue teams across the UK available to respond in the event of a call-out should also be considered. 

Thanks

Kat Hawkins
NWCRO Secretary

Offline Fjell

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2020, 04:35:39 pm »
Maybe it would just be simpler to announce there is no mountain rescue and it’s on you.

Not having rescue cover is a ridiculous reason to say people can’t walk up any hill in England or Wales. In Scotland you take your own chances.

Online mikem

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2020, 08:42:19 pm »
Glencoe might disagree...

Online Mark Wright

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2020, 09:05:42 pm »
There are so many selfish plonkers out there who just don't get it.

Mind you, it does appear to be a family trait in this case.

Offline Speleofish

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2020, 12:53:51 am »
Some of the UK's ICUs are swamped, most of the rest are fuller than usual. We don't know what's going to happen next. Admissions are ramping up.Looking after Covid patients on ICU is time-consuming and very difficult. It's made even harder because relatives can no longer visit except for a limited number to say goodbye (once) to a dying patient.

Usually we have 24 beds available for all comers. Currently we have filled 32 beds, have another 120 places to put patients (not the same as ICU beds but they might do) and might able to stretch to 150. After that, we're stuffed (and, more importantly, so are you). Best case prediction, we need just over 150 beds. Worst case, nearly 300 (for our catchment area). This ignores the likelihood that neighbouring, smaller hospitals will run out of capacity and send their excess patients to us (rather likely).
Long before we reach 'capacity' we run out of staff, so supervision will be cursory.

I've said this in a previous post, but it bears repeating. We are beyond what we would normally consider our safe limits, and will have to stretch further in the next few weeks. However you take your daily, permitted exercise, please don't do anything that runs the risk that you'll need us. ...

Offline Fjell

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2020, 07:24:06 am »
The health benefits of everyone getting out for exercise will vastly outweigh a couple of brief hospital visits from people falling over you would think.

This could be going on for years, so best to plan for it.

Offline Tripod

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2020, 08:02:29 am »
What are people missing about this? Crowds in the Peak District on the first sunny weekend of the year,  with people making a fuss because the pubs were shut. Farmers are having a lot of trouble across the country with large numbers of people, who appear to have never walked anywhere before, wandering over their land, not staying on the foot paths and some not keeping their dogs under control. Emergency hospitals have been built and yesterday I was told that a hospital near me has been turned over to treat just Corvid virus patients, with staff accommodated in a nearby Travel Lodge. Cancer treatments and tests have been stopped. How stupid can people be? You go out, you might breakdown or have an accident, you go into the countryside and infect gates and styles, or get infected from them, you meet other people - same story. You could place demands on the emergency services, take up a hospital bed or infect others and take up many beds. What is so hard to understand?

Offline Fjell

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2020, 08:08:37 am »
I spent my career doing HSE risk assessment. This disease is killing people with heart conditions, diabetes and apparently just obesity. Keeping 65 million people indoors for the rest of this year will kill a lot more people than those who fall over.
I live in the Park and see none of the behaviour you describe. People are behaving perfectly sensibly so stop panicking. Even the kids are having elaborate discussions on social distancing.

Online mikem

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2020, 08:23:46 am »
Latest reports suggest 1/3rd of ICU beds are currently occupied by people with covid-19 & it is going to get worse - but fjell is right, if it continues long term, a lot more than that are going to have their lives shortened due to other factors related to the lockdown...

It's sensible to shut the honeypot footpaths, but blanket closing areas is not the answer - someone I know of in France is restricted to their village, where they are far more likely to run into people, or hurt themselves on the many staircases, than they would be on the low level footpaths in the surrounding countryside.

Offline Stuart France

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2020, 10:44:36 pm »
An updated page tonight reflecting the past week in Wales from an outdoors perspective, and tonight's news of the order from Health Minister Matt Hancock to stay home as warm spring weather arrives in many parts this weekend.

http://www.cambriancavingcouncil.org.uk/corona%20virus.html

Offline JoshW

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2020, 10:28:24 am »
Some people are either selfish, stupid or most likely a combination of the both.

Plenty of things you can do around the house/locally to not get obese whilst reducing the risk of spreading the virus.

Offline pwhole

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2020, 12:26:27 pm »
Much of the tension depends very much on where you live. If it's in the suburbs of an average city, maybe on a housing estate (of all degrees of wealth), it could be several miles of walking to get to what you might call 'green space'. Many city parks are not much more than a square of grass with some swings, especially in London. So folks are literally restricted to walking around their urban neighbourhood for exercise - hardly stimulating if most of that is concrete or brick canyons. If the neighbourhood is not that safe already, they may be even less inclined - though I'd be interested to hear how the gang situation is faring under lockdown.

Living where I do in Sheffield I've got access to several large parks and large areas of woodland within 15 mins walk of my home, so it's not too bad really. But I've noticed a huge increase in visitors to places I'd normally expect to be deserted - which is probably a good thing, if a little disconcerting. Many are clearly unfamiliar with the location (and the territory - some walk as though they're half-expecting something to drop onto their heads from a tree), and I've even been asked the way to places, but generally, if they're discovering their local wilderness (and walking to it) whilst maintaining social distancing (not that hard in the woods), it has to be better than sitting indoors watching TV and eating crap.

If obesity is a major risk factor for Covid-19, and it's certainly looking that way, then folks need to get exercising and cut down on eating, as it's a major issue here, and even more so in the US. The receptionist at my local GP surgery is so large you can hear her breathing (gasping) on the other side of the reception room, and it's not small.

Online mikem

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2020, 12:43:31 pm »
Fly tipping & garage break ins are definitely on the up around here. Fortunately gangs aren't an issue.

Offline Martin Laverty

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2020, 07:45:00 pm »
Another substantial update has been made to http://cambriancavingcouncil.org.uk/corona%20virus.html to summarise the viral news epidemic in Wales. It includes a link to lots of public health details for Wales, but the headline is just "Caving remains on hold".

Offline mrodoc

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Re: CCC and others on access to Welsh caves and countryside
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2020, 11:57:36 am »
Better dead than duffers was always her motto.

I was once left sitting in the car when she popped into a souk in Iran to pick up some nan. She had forgotten she was wearing micro shorts and a bikini top and got arrested for lewdness. She was taken to the police station where she invited the chief of police to dinner, and who sent her home in his car. I got home somewhat later.

The late Bob Lewis did several solo walkabouts when we were there. We got quite used to him coming back with puzzled policemen.

 

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