Author Topic: Trespass  (Read 6539 times)

Online mikem

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2021, 12:50:12 pm »
Unsanctioned digging would come under criminal damage. Aggravated trespass involves "Intentionally obstructing, disrupting, or intimidating others from carrying out ‘lawful activities’." (So if you threatened the landowner, or their agents)

Offline Wardy

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2021, 08:38:07 pm »
i had a memorable experience when out prospecting up Wharfedale a few years back with my wife.
We were the wrong side of the wall from the access land to be honest and had followed a track along the bench that cut in round a ghyl and back out.
As I checked out a small shake hole Sarah noticed two farmers lads who started shouting across the ghyl at us whilst waving their shotgun in our direction. We took this as a bad sign.
For a moment I pondered our situation then realised that while they were looked close they did have to run round the top of the ghyl, so we probably had quite a head start and were both fairly good runners.
That was it we both set off along the bench at a fair pace with two teenagers swearing profusely in hot pursuit.
After getting on for a mile we came across a lone walker also trespassing and in the middle of his lunch - Surprised he first saw us then heard the expletives and finally linked the events, rapidly packing up and setting off after us.
After about a mile and a half we finally reached a footpath cutting down off the fell and hared off down it, still with the noise of angry teenagers in the distance.
To this day I cannot imagine what the teenagers would have done had they managed to shoot us - Would we have been taken back to the farm as trophies.
Alternatively they could have caught up with us only to find we were nastier than them!
I definitely learnt a valuable lesson that day - dressing appropriately does not mean wearing your favourite bright red fleece when trespassing! 
The whole thing does bring out the stupidity of the situation in relation to access, as the fell in question is unimproved land, just on their chosen side of the wall.

Offline crickleymal

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2021, 09:45:45 am »
I'd have been tempted to report it to the police. Threatening people with firearms is serious.
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2021, 10:30:08 am »
Sounds like a cross between a Benny Hill chase and Deliverance.

Online mikem

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2021, 12:41:21 pm »
Excuse me officer, we were trespassing & then we ran away from people who we can't identify...

Offline crickleymal

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2021, 06:51:13 pm »
Well trespass isn't criminal and they were able to identify them as teenagers.
Malc
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Offline Wardy

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2021, 07:16:21 pm »
I had a similar experience a few years earlier and pre CRoW whilst coming back from a days digging at Benfoot with John New.
The weather was dreadful, cold wet and windy, so rather than being more discreet we cut straight across the fell down past Swarthgill to the Mossdale track.
A few hundred metres before we got to the track we spotted a line of fancy Range Rovers just upstream of Mossdale and coming our way.
We hurriedly bridged the gap to the track and then walked along it calmly waiting for them to pass and trying to look innocent.
As the first one caught up with us it slowed and my heart sank as an extremely well dressed gent wound down the window, looked me in the eye and with a wry smile asked "Good days caving Lads?" before raising the window and calmly driving off.
In this case we were caught red handed and he made his point, but in a far more dignified way.
Maybe that's the difference between a hill farmer and the landed gentry.

Offline Down and beyond

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2021, 07:41:32 am »
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300139

Could be of interest don’t no if it’s been shared  the outcome date  looks like month tomorrow

Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2021, 08:21:22 am »
Being one of the "Locals", the farmers hereabouts are happy to let me wander around their field edges on my early morning dog walks, as long as I'm prepared to chew the fat with them for a while, but anyone they don't know gets the sharp edge of their tongue. It's a real problem to them during this pandemic, with the ignorant townies tramping across crops.

Echoing Wardy's experience, I remember a group of us walking across the fields to the top of Ebbor Gorge to do a bit of abseiling when a hunt was on. A couple of riders, dressed in their hunting kit, came galloping towards us & a very posh, indignant lady demanded to know what we were doing on "her' fields (I don't think they were hers, mind). Once we explained where we were going, and that our sacks only contained ropes & abseiling gear, she was happy to let us carry on. She explained there was a concern we were hunt saboteurs "...So jolly good show, carry on chaps!"
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Offline Down and beyond

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2021, 08:33:07 am »
Being one of the "Locals", the farmers hereabouts are happy to let me wander around their field edges on my early morning dog walks, as long as I'm prepared to chew the fat with them for a while, but anyone they don't know gets the sharp edge of their tongue. It's a real problem to them during this pandemic, with the ignorant townies tramping across crops.

Echoing Wardy's experience, I remember a group of us walking across the fields to the top of Ebbor Gorge to do a bit of abseiling when a hunt was on. A couple of riders, dressed in their hunting kit, came galloping towards us & a very posh, indignant lady demanded to know what we were doing on "her' fields (I don't think they were hers, mind). Once we explained where we were going, and that our sacks only contained ropes & abseiling gear, she was happy to let us carry on. She explained there was a concern we were hunt saboteurs "...So jolly good show, carry on chaps!"

We have got very similar issues locally in the aspect of hunting causing issues but are problems sadly stretch far worse , this removes any chance of permission because the mines are in pheasant pens and they are the only mines for a good 60 miles from us so we have to travel , when we have been stopped and turned away they always think are bags are for stealing their birds and we have tried a lot of times to reason with them for permission it will never happen now if this law goes through .

Online mikem

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2021, 09:54:54 am »
It is often the case of finding the right person to chat to in the pub.

Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2021, 10:00:35 am »
The problem with cavers is... they look like cavers, and unlike any other land users. Firstly there is the rope/kit bag: PVC yellow/orange/blue then there is the general scruffiness. Quite unlike the sort of thing any decent ordinary folk with a peerage would carry and why won't those oiks wear proper Hunter's wellies?

Once the government has reviewed trespass and Lords have amended, man traps will be legalised. Flushing out and hunting (by horse and hounds) people with PVC bags will be recognised a countryside sport ;)


Edit: as much as I'm joking above, I also have sympathy for farmers disrupted by swarms of inconsiderate and indiscrete people.
Expert in incompetent tomfoolery

Offline Alex

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2021, 11:01:27 am »
Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Don’t criminalise trespass”.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300139

The debate is scheduled for 19 April 2021.

...

So I guess watch this space.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Online mikem

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2021, 11:05:18 am »
But Hunter's wellies have the worst possible grip on rock...

Offline kay

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2021, 08:15:43 am »
Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Don’t criminalise trespass”.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300139

The debate is scheduled for 19 April 2021.

...

So I guess watch this space.

Remember petitions are debated in Westminster Hall, not in the Chamber of the House of Commons. The quorum for a debate is 3, including the Chairman.

Offline crickleymal

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2021, 10:17:09 am »
Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Don’t criminalise trespass”.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300139

The debate is scheduled for 19 April 2021.

...

So I guess watch this space.

Remember petitions are debated in Westminster Hall, not in the Chamber of the House of Commons. The quorum for a debate is 3, including the Chairman.
Petition is closed
Malc
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Offline D.Send

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2021, 12:59:58 pm »
Hi,
'Free mining' laws ensure that prospecting and digging should go unhindered, provided that land is rendered usable. This applies to any abandoned sites too. There are special courts to oversee any disputes. (Many silver/lead veins were found in natural caves). Being strategic, underground resources belong to the crown, not to private landowners, and that since way before medieval charters were established to this effect. 'Resources' also include coal, oil and gas, etc... (and perhaps water).
D.Send.

Online mikem

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2021, 01:12:47 pm »
Only gold & silver belong to the crown, all other minerals are private property (& free mining only applies in very limited circumstances)

Offline D.Send

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2021, 10:49:04 pm »
Hi mikem,
Things are not quite as simple as you indicate : All 'private' lands in England and Wales are crown (now state) lands, the details of the 'holdings' being complex ! The state has the rights to oil, gas, coal, gold and silver (and hence to lead lodes), or tin under local law, and ALL depending on declarations in the Land Registry. Things get quite complex when you look at the details...
  D.Send.

Online mikem

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2021, 09:19:57 am »
Especially as the mineral rights can be held by someone other than the land above, & tin is mostly on Duchy of Cornwall land. The Crown also holds mineral rights for quite a bit of North Wales, due to the gold there.

However: "Following the privatisation of the coal industry, the ownership of all coal now resides with the Coal Authority which assumed responsibility for unworked coal and liabilities for past coal mining in 1994."

Offline pwhole

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2021, 10:57:37 am »
I managed to find another of the Sheffield seam outcrops the other day, after much furtling in the undergrowth. This is the Whinmoor, or Mickley Thick seam, just updip from the Silkstone seam, a much more famous (and larger) one. It cuts through Gleadless, Arburthorne and Norfolk Park, before heading into the town centre - there's not a lot visible these days, and this will vanish in a month once the vegetation has grown back. But it's a good example of how these seams were originally discovered. I did bring a bit home with me, but not much your honour, only a pocketful.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2021, 09:46:34 pm »
Can't even confine you to Sheffield without finding rocks to look at.

 I walked past some limestone boulders, not erratics as they had been placed there. But quite out of place where they are being 20-30miles away from limestone! If it helps me stay vaguely on topic, they were surrounded by signs saying you are on CCTV and big hedges with signs nearby saying private land (I was on a public footpath).

I also tried to follow a path I came down the other week, but realised the drive said private property. I walked down the main road a bit and took a path, seems it links up to the same place, but no-one really bothered to put any footpath signs up for those coming off the hill.

I remember a story a friend told me that they had been to a mill to check it out for a photoshoot, not on public land. But there were also some kids on the site too, which they turned a blind eye to. Some security guards showed up and asked both groups what they were doing there, my friend told them he was telling off the kids for being on the site! Which got some raised eyebrows but both got let off...

Offline D.Send

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Re: Trespass
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2021, 09:59:32 pm »
Hi mikem,

The forest of Dean, claims ancient free mining rights, for coal, but in a major iron ore district too...
And iron ore was often mined in palaeokarsts...

  D.Send.

 

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