Author Topic: Rule of Six  (Read 3188 times)

Offline JoshW

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 10:45:32 am »
Another contributing factor for London's low rates will be businesses having closed their offices and started people working from home prior to lockdown occurring. This will lower the number of people bringing the virus into London and spreading it.

Offline Alex

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 11:37:32 am »
True Ed, I still don't know why so many people find it hard to wear a mask in a supermarket, except for failing memory. (I still forget to bring shopping bags half the time).
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2020, 01:47:51 pm »
Quote
True Ed, I still don't know why so many people find it hard to wear a mask in a supermarket, except for failing memory. (I still forget to bring shopping bags half the time).

Because they're stupid. It's very common, sadly. But also not that many people watch the news either, as they think it's 'boring', or more often, 'depressing'. It wouldn't be so bloody depressing if people would take responsibility for their lives and fix the problems being described. But if you only get your 'news' from facebook and Twitter, then you're not going to have a very balanced view of the world.

My friends in London are mostly working from home or furloughed - two work at art colleges and I don't think they're re-opening yet. They nearly all work in some form of the art or TV/drama world so I can't really comment on what 'regular' folks are doing. But we were working rope-access on an office rental building in the City, a real old Victorian beauty, and listed, which is why we were repairing it. The smallest room to rent is £1400 a month, up to £3500 a month.

But each office generally comprised two, three or four people and several computers. That's it. They all scarpered by about March 12th, and by the time we got back in early July they still hadn't come back - every office was unoccupied or literally stripped-out. The ground rent on that place (just off Moorgate) must be phenomenal, so if their tenants have all found they can work at home, what happens to that? It's ideal housing, but it's posh. But no posh people will want to live there as all there is nearby are sandwich shops, key shops, stationers, coffee shops, M&S and Boots. Hardly wild.

But I agree - London was far more switched-on, and on my two days back home in Sheffield each week I was slack-jawed watching many people just carry on as though nothing was happening. And now it seems as though a similar proportion have literally forgotten it even exists.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2020, 02:11:10 pm »
Why do people treat this as something new?

Russian Flu    1889–1890    1 million    possibly H2N2
Spanish Flu    1918–1920    50 million    H1N1
Asian Flu    1957–1958    1.5 to 2 million    H2N2
Hong Kong Flu    1968–1969    1 million    H3N2
Swine Flu    2009–2010    over 18,209    novel H1N1

These so-called pandemics happen fairly regularly. How does anyone expect us to follow the rules when even the four parts of the UK cant agree which to apply. We collect our grandson from school. All the children then go on the skate ramps close by. What rubbish to say more than a couple cant go on the ramps with parents close by. It's not going to happen. As for masks many no longer give a toss as nobody down my way will tell you off about it. Nothing to do with us say the shopworkers. Even the track and trace is fitful. I went in a cafe last week. Nothing. Many I know now give false information. Why be under " house arrest " for two weeks if you are not carrying it? OK with a test within a couple of days but not two weeks for likely nothing. The lady in my street was told that she would have to go to Manchester for a test. That from Taunton for God's sake.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 02:14:48 pm »

Online mikem

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2020, 02:30:13 pm »
Would be interesting to find out what percentage of London office workers went home (back to the provinces) & are now working from other regions?

Offline JoshW

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2020, 02:36:21 pm »
The key to getting back to normal safely was always going to be tracking infection and testing.

The government has failed woefully at both of these, and yet has persisted with the opening up again under pressure from various groups.

I do not envy the government's situation to have to put together a set of rules that works for as many as possible whilst staying safe, which is why there was always the element of adhering to the spirit of the rules. The moment Mr Cummings was defended for breaking the spirit of the rules (at the very least) was the moment any chance of any lockdown rules working went out the window. The government could and should have stamped this out as early as possible and sent DC packing.. unless of course it works in their favour to be able to blame certain groups within the general public for the rise in CV19 cases..

Offline pwhole

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2020, 04:22:41 pm »
I'm certainly blaming individuals from the general public for the rise in CV19 cases, as everyone in Britain knows exactly what to do to minimise the risk of infection now, both personal and to others - no excuses. I don't think it can usefully be tagged to 'groups' as such, even if the government want that - though I doubt they need any more chaos than they've already got. Some cultures are certainly more macho than others, which may explain some of it. The only group I could comfortably describe as more risky than others is 'males', but that's kind of obvious really. Dominic Cummings should have been thrown to the lions for his behaviour, but they need him too much - or are too scared to get rid of him. The four parts of the UK can't agree on this, I believe, because of their political stances, which are often contradictory, but that's because separatism/nationalism is a really bad idea, whoever does it, and especially now. And the population densities are rather uneven too, which doesn't help with comparisons - much of Scotland is totally unoccupied by humans in any real numbers.

Coronavirus is in some ways exposing the relative bankruptcy of much of modern politics/social economics and is also exploiting the complacency that can develop in relatively affluent societies - people find it very difficult to adapt to new circumstances en-masse, especially if they appear to threaten our 'way of life'. So 'returning to normal' is a powerful and understandable urge that we're seeing manifested right now. But we can't return to 'normal', because that means complacency and thus increase in infections again. The only way to return to normal is to get rid of the virus, or learn to live with it. That may mean changing the way we live our lives permanently to some degree, but there's nothing wrong with change. But the main thing is to work out how we start new relationships safely and get young people actively participating in life again, otherwise there won't be a useful regenerating population in ten years - the reproduction rate was already too low in GB long before this started.

Online mikem

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2020, 04:28:43 pm »
As with most diseases it still disproportionately affects the poorer parts of society, rather than the affluent ( they can afford social distancing etc)

Offline pwhole

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2020, 04:43:51 pm »
Well I'm poor, but I'm managing it OK. But I do live alone, which helps to some extent, but doesn't in others. I get more lonely but I have a higher chance of staying healthy.

Online mikem

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2020, 04:50:23 pm »
Another problem with gauging the effects of this pandemic, is that we have no idea how many people are dying in (for want of a better wording) third world countries - as majority can't afford to be treated in hospitals, so won't appear in official statistics...

Offline JoshW

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2020, 04:52:18 pm »
As with most diseases it still disproportionately affects the poorer parts of society, rather than the affluent ( they can afford social distancing etc)

Find myself saying this way more than I should be. This is one of the leading theories as to why people of colour are disproportionately affected by CV19, they're in general nearer the lower end of the socio-economic scale, and so are more likely to be working jobs like cleaners/shop workers etc which have continued to work face to face during the outbreak. People will still pin it on brown people having large families though  :wall:

Offline Ed

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2020, 05:09:25 pm »
on the upside working Saturdays and/or Sundays plus extra evenings enforcing  compliance requirements on businesses is doing wonders form my time in lieu & the bit of overtime is handy.

If I ever get around to been able to take it at the moment

Online mikem

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2020, 05:48:02 pm »
A large family does mean more opportunities to introduce & spread the virus, but poverty is much more of a factor than the colour of your skin (although, as you say, they are more likely to be in that economic band - another self reinforcing loop)

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2020, 07:22:15 pm »
I may be mistaken, but I think the point about large families with certain cultures isn't so much about the number of kids, but the number of generations living under the same roof.

In many cultures outside Britain, it is quite common for elderly relatives to live with the younger generations, rather than living alone until they get bundled off into a care home. Where this happens in Britain, it is much more common in non-white communities who have retained some elements of their native culture.

There's a lot to be said for this type of multi-generational living, but in current circumstances it does mean that working people and school kids will bring the virus straight home to vulnerable relatives if they catch it.

Obviously this problem would be compounded by poverty which is also more prevalent in certain ethnic groups.

More kids in a family is unlikely to make much difference as more often than not, the kids will be at the same school and therefore moving in the same social circles, so exposed to the same viruses.
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Offline darren

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2020, 08:55:21 pm »
The alternative to multi generation households seems to be to send the senior generation of to a nursing home.

There the elderly can die alone, unseen without troubling the younger members of the family. Society can say it is a care-home problem and needn't impact the general public.

We do all remember the recent Covid19 mass deaths in care homes don't we?

Difficult to argue one system is better than the other.



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Offline alastairgott

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2020, 10:23:37 pm »
For a lot of people it's also about what jobs are on your doorstep. I have found this out first hand on more than one job interview, where the job has been "won" by a person more local. It's a crazy misconception that you have to have a house right now that's local to the job (but entirely understandable). I know people that move every 6 months into new rented accommodation, presumably because they get bored.

Sometimes there are areas where particular ethnic backgrounds are more prevalent, I can't say that I've seen many people living in Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Mendip or south wales who aren't 'white British'. this could be echoed across large swathes of afluent living in London and is certainly true in Cheshire, where bizarrely they have been found guilty of being prejudiced to a white hetrosexual male. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/cheshire-police-found-guilty-discrimination-15874831

When coupled with biases in the job selection process you can see how people could be 'held back' by their Race, Gender or sex. I'm not saying it's right, far from it. but one of the biggest factors in Quality of life (or affluence) is what area you live in, or feel comfortable living in.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2020, 08:41:52 am »
Both my Grannies lived at home with the family at different times. I remember one and heard her die in the room next to my bedroom. She was my             " childcare " when mum and dad were at work full time. That situation was seen as normal 60 - 70 years ago. Today they are bunged off to a home to rot peaceably away kept artificially alive when all hope as gone. That's our " caring " society.

Offline Fjell

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2020, 09:43:38 am »
It’s not that simple. I have:
1. One 92 year old living with me.
2. One 92 year old in a nursing home now on a drip half the time.
3. One 80 year old in a secure home. Not allowed access to any liquids or tools. No possibility of being allowed in a normal house without 24 hour supervision.
4. One 80 year old whooping it up with gay abandon on their own. No detectable social distancing that’s for sure. Woo woo.

The one with me has to accept the risk of my kids going to school and none of us shielding beyond common sense. We have a carer for when we go caving or walking all day.

It’s just life. There is a lady down the road I was bringing stuff to. She is rapidly declining into dementia. She just stands there very puzzled about life. She might be better off now living in a decent home with people talking to her.  Some places are very good, but you absolutely get what you pay for. Whizzy ones with pubs are £80k a year. Local councils will stump up £25k grudgingly for the destitute, but realistically you get SFA. All that healthy living to get to 90 is possibly an error.

Offline pwhole

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2020, 12:36:30 pm »
And it's quite certain that many people in the next generation or two to encounter this unfortunate situation will almost certainly not have the savings or pension to pay for it until they die. I certainly won't, and there will be millions more in the same situation. So then what? On the other hand, many millions have many billions squirrelled away in savings or pensions that they really don't need. My dad retired at 65 and is now 83, but on average he gets paid more than I do every month - he told me only last week that he hasn't needed an income for the last ten years. It never stops rolling in, and all his old friends from work are in the same boat (or on the same cruise ship, anyway).

Strangely (thankfully?), I don't know of a single member of my extended family that has dementia, or even close to it. Though most are Catholic - maybe that's it? ;)

Offline crickleymal

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2020, 01:07:44 pm »
Having seen the way my father has deteriorated mentally and physically there's no way I want to reach his age (96). My mother was 92 when she died and the same applied. If I get to 75 that'll do.
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Offline Fulk

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2020, 05:43:22 pm »
Quote
If I get to 75 that'll do.

Hmmm, well, I dare say that that was said written with tongue in cheek, nevertheless, I wouldn't be too sure of that, crickleymal! I'll be 74 in the near future, but still enjoy going caving, walking in the hills, getting out on my bike (three [admittedlyshort] outings so far this week). Although I do try to take care of my health, I acknowledge that there is a big dollop of luck in being able to continue like this. (By the way, pwhole, I have a crap pension and work part-time to eke it out.  :))

Offline darren

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2020, 06:21:21 pm »
Did a 50 mile cycle ride averaging 14 mph today.

I was accompanied by an 80 year old, a 77 year old and a 73 year old among others. 80 year old was showing his age, had to help him change an inner tube.
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Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2020, 06:24:23 pm »
Based on the thread it looks as though I was correct about club caving dying off.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Rule of Six
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2020, 07:44:20 pm »
University clubs are making plans to go caving, especially those universities which are not in Local Lockdowns. So, Chris, you can bring your grim reaper outfit to the thread, but hang the cloak up at the door to this thread please, the weave doesn't match.  ;)

 

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