What are people's thought on this idea.
Seeing as we are all doing less caving these days, how about the bca negotiating a reduction on the premium.
I think it would go a long way.
Opinions please

Some (most?) Car Insurers refunded part of the premiums we (motorists) paid this year because of the reduced travel during the first "lockdown".

I imagine it was more based on business strategy and marketing (rather thank it just being a nice gesture) but .....

Good idea 

Ian

I think the discount my car insurance providers offered me would equate to about ?2 on a ?200 policy.

By the same reckoning, that would be an 8p discount (for each member) on an ?8 BCA policy. Since the BCA buys the policy, not the members, the BCA might get a reasonable refund (circa ?500 perhaps?), but trying top administer the redistribution of this to 6,000 members would be a monumental task, far outweighing the 8p benefit each member would receive. If the BCA kept the refund, not doubt there would be calls of foul play from some members.

Nice idea, but hardly seems worth it...

Good idea.
BCA is desperate for cash, and its officers desperate for something to do to justify their money.

& we'd probably just end up paying more next year to make up for it!

Chocolate fireguard said:

BCA is desperate for cash

Click to expand...

Really? or was that meant as a sarcastic comment?  :doubt:

The end result was a surplus of ?8k compared with ?19k in 2018. Cash balances were ?16k
higher at year end compared to previously year at ?298k. Accruals were at a similar value to
prior year at ?36k. Net assets were ?262k, compared to ?254k prior year.

Click to expand...

https://british-caving.org.uk/documents/agm-reports-2020/

I spend more annually on chocolate flapjacks before a caving trip than I do on the insurance, and I'm hardly wealthy. Negotiating a discount on something that's already dirt-cheap doesn't seem a good look to me. And given it's to protect others from paying for our mistakes, and indirectly pay for our rescuers, should we need them, I think it's a question of honour as much as anything else. We haven't had any club members asking for a subs or insurance refund, despite their reduced benefits this year, as I suspect everyone knows this is beyond fault, and keeping the organisation going is more important - as long as folks can afford it, of course.

Although I am not interested in doing then0 work, wouldn't you have to show a quantifiable reduction in the caving carried out under BCA membership compared to when the policy was signed?

PeteHall said:

Chocolate fireguard said:

BCA is desperate for cash

Click to expand...

Really? or was that meant as a sarcastic comment?  :doubt:

The end result was a surplus of ?8k compared with ?19k in 2018. Cash balances were ?16k
higher at year end compared to previously year at ?298k. Accruals were at a similar value to
prior year at ?36k. Net assets were ?262k, compared to ?254k prior year.

Click to expand...

https://british-caving.org.uk/documents/agm-reports-2020/

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I hate to admit it, but I do read the accounts.

Please don't ask if I really believe people get paid.

Might be worth letting sleeping dogs lie on insurance.
Might be better getting a BCA discount on the previously mentioned large scale investments in chocolate flapjacks, or donuts (jam variety), or maybe Black Forest Gateau (cherries have known health benefits).

I think it would go a long way.

Click to expand...

A long way to what, exactly? The BCA premium is pretty paltry, anyway, so I don't know what 'a long way' of a low premium would go towards.

I can only assume this is a troll?

ZombieCake said:

Might be better getting a BCA discount on the previously mentioned large scale investments in chocolate flapjacks, or donuts (jam variety), or maybe Black Forest Gateau (cherries have known health benefits).

Click to expand...

I think I'm probably eligible for a grant to cover the flapjack outlay by now. I keep all the receipts

Fulk said:

I think it would go a long way.

Click to expand...

A long way to what, exactly? The BCA premium is pretty paltry, anyway, so I don't know what 'a long way' of a low premium would go towards.

Click to expand...

I hope the OP doesn?t mind me jumping in ?

To understand the thread (and to answer that question) you need a little bit of background.

UCET (the club the OP and myself are members of) has only a modest membership and far less available funds than the BCA.

Club Subscriptions are now due (probably the same for most clubs) and we were discussing what we could do to help our members since they have not been able to ?go caving? much over the last year and it doesn?t seem likely (here in Wales anyway) that caving will be permitted for some time to come.

We therefore feel that the club?s request for caving subs will be met with apathy and we believe our modest membership will reduce. This position may well be mirrored within many other caving clubs across the UK.

So, in an effort to give something back to our members (and help protect our numbers) we are considering foregoing the club subscriptions this year.

However, the BCA insurance still needs addressing and (as things stand) we may still have to ask members for at least that amount. There was a moot that the club might pay the insurance FOR the members (which would secure 100% of the numbers) but this would cost a small fortune. Even though the insurance is only ?17 (a paltry amount as suggested by someone else) it becomes a much bigger number when it is multiplied by the number of members of the (your) club.

The OP?s question really centres on, ?What can the BCA do to help us retain our membership? (for all UK clubs) specifically with regards to ?costs? for a sport that has been plagued with restrictions.

I hope that offers some clarity, it was an honestly well-intentioned question.

Ian

Thanks for that clarification, Ian.

I decided to start paying the insurance individually again because of the more recent CNCC access agreements. I believe the insurance plays a part in that, so if you want to benefit from them then I felt you should make some gesture.

The chance of me being involved something needing the insurance is so small as to be ignored, that isn?t the point.

Feel free to disagree.

Fjell said:

I decided to start paying the insurance individually again because of the more recent CNCC access agreements. I believe the insurance plays a part in that, so if you want to benefit from them then I felt you should make some gesture.

The chance of me being involved something needing the insurance is so small as to be ignored, that isn?t the point.

Feel free to disagree.

Click to expand...

The membership isn't just insurance, it also funds things like the CNCC or the recent case regarding CRoW... Off the top of my head it's 50/50 split, insurance vs everything else.

As one of those officers justifying their exorbitant spend of ?0 this year.

Chocolate fireguard said:

Please don't ask if I really believe people get paid.

Click to expand...

Who gets paid? BCA officers? Not as far as I'm aware...

there are a couple of BCA employee's, no idea on how many, how many hours or the rate of pay, I am sure if anyone so wishes they could go through BCA accounts and find some or all of the relevent figures

Plus not all the insurance is for public liability of individuals, I believe there is also landowner indemnity, business cover for the officers & presumably something towards the caving library. I assume club hut insurance is separately covered by their fees.

Looking at last year's figures, the BCA could afford to drop ?10,000, but that's still only ?1.50 per person. Perhaps fees could be reduced on application, but would involve a lot of someone's time...

BTW, I know that the BMC lost c.5000 members during lockdown (but still had 80,000 left).