Author Topic: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase  (Read 16425 times)

andymorgan

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2008, 01:40:40 pm »
Still much rather have a trespass fee to pay than have to write off somewhere and apply for a permit...I Know which offers easier access!

 :thumbsup:

darkplaces

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2008, 03:04:57 pm »
Still much rather have a trespass fee to pay than have to write off somewhere and apply for a permit...I Know which offers easier access!

 :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: I'll add my thumbs up to that.
Empire building & Gates verses 'goodwill fee' and leaving people alone with the risks - Priceless.
The best way to show to the farmer he's taking the piss or just judged it wrong (farmers are human I think and might have made a bad judgement on how much to charge) then vote by not going, even organise it. Its his right to define a price its your right to not go and express your view.

Offline Anon

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Offline paul

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2008, 08:47:10 pm »
I only posted the original message as a "heads up" as a group of my friends went to Giants with £2 each not realising there had been an increase.

Judging from the amount of moaning going on, it's a good job the fee at Giants Hole is only increased only every 20 years or so....

I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

littlebear

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2008, 09:20:58 pm »
Well even if I went regularly and lived close by I don't think I would mind £3... I agree totally about the road maintenence, walls, litter and having to let helicopters have landing access, etc...

Put your effort into complaining about fuel prices, somewhere it counts!

(But that said - I agree discussion is good and realistically people are always going to be half and half as to whether they agree with/like something... usually price rises are exactly that, what half of us can afford and half cannot, the rise being enough to compensate for the loss)

As for the education centres... I don't think £1 or even a couple more, increase per child [parents paying more not the centres] will do that much harm... if the competition is undercutting you they are making a loss - either that or ring around and get your local competition to agree that you all increase your charges by the same amount.

Online nickwilliams

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2008, 09:46:20 pm »
- either that or ring around and get your local competition to agree that you all increase your charges by the same amount.

There's laws against that kind of thing, you know!

Nick.
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Offline Iain Barker

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2008, 06:14:42 am »
Having a little knowledge of the gentleman in question (who is a very nice bloke by-the-way) the probable truth is that the owner at Giant's  doesn't care if people go down his cave or not. The income from the site will more than likely be seen as some compensation for all the hassle and worry that just having such a popular cave on his land provides. Three quid is reasonable. How much for four hours in a squash court, gym, swimming bath, rifle range, tennis court etc, etc, ad nauseum....
I would like to see ALL our caves free access, no permits, no gates. It can't be like that though. Just after the owner at Giant's bought the place we carried  a young girl out with spinal injuries; a conversation I had with the owner through the window of his car when the rescue was over saved the site from total shutdown; that's how close it came. It's not our cave, non of them are; they are all owned by someone and they CAN be taken from us. While I do everything I can to keep access fees static, obviously they will creep up with the passage of time. You'd be amazed at some of the charges I have managed to talk landowners out of implementing, but I reckon three pounds for as long as you like down Giant's is still good value, as one of the previous posters said, it wouldn't be ok for Lay-by, but it is for this site. As for  a special discount for paying novices...why?
Caves are where you find 'em!

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2008, 07:24:12 am »
As for  a special discount for paying novices...why?

Economy of scale, perhaps.

e.g. A busy outdoor pursuits centre (I'm basing my example on OPs in my locality, not Dshire, so I may be wildly off the mark!) may be taking groups (8-12 in size, depending on their operating procedures/route/ages etc..) in the morning and afternoon for, say, up to five days a week. This equates to possibly as many as 12 x 2 x 5 = 120, giving rise to goodwill payments of 120 x £3 = £360 per week = £18,000 p.a. (most likely on a seasonal/pro rata basis).

In such an example, with the new increase, this equates to an annual goodwill hike of £6k.

Such gross sums "disappearing" each year into the wide blue yonder, if unreceipted, would be unacceptable accounting and so would clearly require receipting. At this stage it might not be unreasonable to negotiate downwards on the amount payable, or even to arrange a single annual payment with an eye-wateringly massive up-front discount.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 07:37:01 am by cap 'n chris »

hoehlenforscher

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2008, 09:20:29 am »
But Diesel has gone up from 80p to 120 a litre (same proportional price hike as £2-£3). If the bus uses uses 100 litres a week it now costs £40 more x 50 = £2000 extra in fuel/year. Perhaps you can negotiate a deal with Shell for discounted fuel!

THE COST OF LIVING IS GOING UP. ...........FOR EVERYONE

littlebear

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2008, 06:52:00 pm »
There's laws against that kind of thing, you know!

As far as I know it's fairly normal for businesses to increase charges in appropriate proportion to increases in their supplier's fees... I don't know the precise laws but I am sure those circumstances are dictated for!

Monopolies and Cartels are slightly different to increasing your charges by £1 per child when the entrance fee has increased £1 per head... you could be right though - state of the government today I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of penalty fine for that!

DARBY

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2008, 11:55:35 pm »
Hi i had actually given up on this topic,but refer to Iains comments a person who is in a pretty bloody stronge place regarding access, these people do not talt s..t and i can only imagine the battles they have had to keep access open.
I am in the dales from tommorrow for two weeks where most of the time access will not even be an issue, i cannot believe that a £1 pound rise as created a 5 page discussion on this forum. THE FEE HAS GONE UP IT AINT GOING TO CHANGE SO GET OUT CAVING AND STOP TALKING BO.....S OVER A QUID. (and to previous comment farmers do have computers and do read these forums it is in their own interest to know whats going on)

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2008, 01:49:37 pm »
i cannot believe that a £1 pound rise as created a 5 page discussion on this forum.

I'm surprised it's only five pages.

Offline Anon

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2008, 03:04:11 pm »
Oooh.. A few more choice comments on the matter would no doubt encourage more replies and take it to six plus pages.. ;)

neontube

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #88 on: April 21, 2008, 11:09:21 am »
wow 87+ replies.
I'm new to caving, and went down giants for the first time yesterday (sunday 20th)
we made it down as far as just before the east canal before returning back.
6 hours all in all, well worth the £3!

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #89 on: April 21, 2008, 11:20:19 am »
6 hours all in all, well worth the £3!

50p per hour?

Clearly you are new to caving. An old lag would expect lithe nubile lapdancers-a-plenty while being spoon fed caviar and truffles for 20p per week.

neontube

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #90 on: April 21, 2008, 11:31:40 am »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7357880.stm

perhaps some of that 50 billion could go in the direction of cavers..... ;D

Offline Johnny

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #91 on: April 21, 2008, 08:25:52 pm »
Hmm, I suspect you might have to come up with some good idea as to why you can take 12+ people in a group into a SSSI (Bagshawe) when the MICC states:

"Keep your party to a small size.  Specific requirements may apply in certain instances and site specific Cave Conservation Plans may stipulate a minimum and/or a maximum party size.  In other cases the recommended party size should be no greater than six".

Which appears to say that, unless a maximum group size is stipulated, in the case of SSSI sites, you're looking at a maximum group size of 6. (Of course this affects other well known SSSI sites around the country, too, such as Swildon's Hole for example - where group sizes in excess of 30 are a frequent occurrence, especially when caving clubs are celebrating yet another glorious "milestone" anniversary and they all dress up in tweed jackets/cardboard helmets etc..).

So, to summarise:

There are so many instances of MICC being ignored that ignoring it appears to be normal. Sounds like as good an idea as any other.

Sorry to post a bit late on this topic; I have not been on the site too much recently.

I must pick you up on this point Chris. A conservation plan has been undertaken for this system and recomendations/actions taken to limit impact of groups;

http://www.eldon.org.uk/bagshawe_use_by_area.pdf
Onwards to glory!

Offline Big Jim

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #92 on: May 03, 2008, 09:09:41 pm »
To anyone who thinks a quid increase is taking the piss, then I for one dont ever want to go down the pub with you, you tight gits.  Its 3 friggin quid for god sake. 3 friggin quid!  Dear oh dear. :wall:

I will pay the extra quid for any individual who goes this month (and I earn fuck all as a ranger).  PM me if you want the quid. (I will publish list of names under title "Tight C***s" of those who ask for the quid)



Well, I'm very pleased to report that April has come and gone and no one has contacted me to claim a quid to subsidise a day out down Giant's. :clap2:

Andy, you can save the contents of your piggy bank for our next New Inn session, post caving this time perhaps  :beer2: :beer2: :beer2:


Offline LarryFatcat

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #93 on: June 18, 2008, 10:36:32 pm »
I usually take a look at Giants car park as I go past and there seems to have been a fall off in use in the last few weeks.

   ...  ..  Maybe the fee is having an effect?

Offline Charlie

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #94 on: June 19, 2008, 09:56:53 am »
I usually take a look at Giants car park as I go past and there seems to have been a fall off in use in the last few weeks.

   ...  ..  Maybe the fee is having an effect?

Could also have something to do with the uni clubs having dispersed for the summer.
If you gaze long into the abyss then the abyss gazes also into you

hoehlenforscher

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #95 on: June 19, 2008, 12:52:48 pm »
My thoughts exactly Charlie

Offline ianball11

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #96 on: June 19, 2008, 01:32:54 pm »
More car sharing perhaps as fuel is expensive now.

darkplaces

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Re: Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase
« Reply #97 on: June 19, 2008, 04:41:08 pm »
I heard the fee was going to go up by £14.34...