Author Topic: Giant's Vandalism  (Read 9090 times)

Offline thehungrytroglobite

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Giant's Vandalism
« on: January 02, 2021, 09:22:32 pm »
ABSOLUTELY FUMING -

Went into Giant's today to see loads of graffiti all the way from the entrance to the pitch head at Garlands. There are LOADS of these pointless blue arrows pointing from Garlands to the entrance, even consecutive arrows in passages where there is literally no way to go wrong! And some idiot named LUKE has decided to scrawl their name all over the cave. I've attached a couple of photos as examples but didn't bother photographing most of them. Some other random graffiti too.

AND there was a host of celebrations wrappers lying in various different indents - along with cigarette butts and a horrific stench of fags in the cave. I cleared all of these up of course but couldn't do anything about the graffiti. If anyone knows how the graffiti can be removed I will happily go and do it myself as I don't live far away, just not sure how to do it! 
full of whimsical ideas

Offline AR

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2021, 09:29:57 pm »
Having removed plenty of graffiti around the Peak, wirebrushing is the easiest and quickest method of shifting it. If it's somewhere delicate and you don't want to risk damage then solvent-based removal is the way to go, I'm more than happy to provide advice on how to do that; I  perfected the technique on the "Land of Dope and Story" slab in Cumberland Cavern last year!
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Fatman

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2021, 09:49:19 pm »
Absolutely horrific. If I get a chance I might pop down tomorrow and do a few tests to see if wire brushing is too aggressive. I cannot get my head around how some people think or don't as in this case.
Too good looking to cave

Offline Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2021, 10:23:17 pm »
The amount of snow that came down this afternoon probably makes the Giant's track impassable for a day or two, so expect to walk from the main road if you do go. I'll try to get a cleanup crew sorted from the local instructors / caver community.
Thanks for flagging this up. There is a direct reporting form for stuff like this on the DCA website if you ever need to pass on access or conservation stuff.
https://www.thedca.org.uk/conservation-access/issue-reporting
I'll do some emailing and start rattling up a crew.
Pete
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Offline Stuart Anderson

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2021, 10:32:57 pm »
The amount of snow that came down this afternoon probably makes the Giant's track impassable for a day or two, so expect to walk from the main road if you do go. I'll try to get a cleanup crew sorted from the local instructors / caver community.
Thanks for flagging this up. There is a direct reporting form for stuff like this on the DCA website if you ever need to pass on access or conservation stuff.
https://www.thedca.org.uk/conservation-access/issue-reporting
I'll do some emailing and start rattling up a crew.
Pete
DCA Projects Officer

Absolutely appalling vandalism and fair play for looking to sort it.

Presumably you have good links/contact with the farm? Thinking out loud, and apologies for teaching you to suck eggs; with Derbyshire being tier 4 might be worth knocking on their door if a clean up crew starts looking like a random team.

Good luck with it.
I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

Offline thehungrytroglobite

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2021, 11:02:28 pm »
Was a considerable amount of snow when we emerged from Giants this evening, yes, but luckily we'd parked our van on the road at the top anyway, having checked the forecast beforehand.

Thanks for the link, I'll take note of that!

My other concern is if this becomes a frequent occurrence, it has obviously happened on multiple occasions, and I fear news of giants is spreading as more and more people are going down there with little respect for cave conservation - I suppose there isn't an easy answer for how to tackle that though!
full of whimsical ideas

Offline Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2021, 11:15:29 pm »
I've pointed people (DCA/instructors) at this thread and we'll organise some Covid-safe action on here when the weather allows. DCA can buy a load of green scouring pads for this (they worked well on fresh stuff in Carlswark a few years ago). We'll try elbow grease before solvents I think, got to consider the watercourse downstream.
You'd think that being on private land, somewhere like this would be fairly safe from vandalism, but the rise in publicity on social media about these places is making them more accessible to those who don't always appreciate the fragility and importance of the sites. I don't think there is an easy answer for prevention, so all we can probably do is come together as responsible users to clean it up when it happens and do our best to educate the wider world about conservation.

Offline pwhole

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2021, 11:17:17 pm »
My other concern is if this becomes a frequent occurrence, it has obviously happened on multiple occasions, and I fear news of giants is spreading as more and more people are going down there with little respect for cave conservation - I suppose there isn't an easy answer for how to tackle that though!

A CCTV system and a large portcullis installed over the entrance with the 'activate' button at my place. Pete can have the 'release' button as an app on his phone ;)

Offline tdobson

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2021, 11:25:05 pm »
Just before T4, on the 28th, I was in Giants doing some SRT "experience" with a group at Garlands.

As we were getting changed, in the dark at about ,7/8pm, a car pulled up along the drive. "Weird!" I thought. The car went and parked behind us and I tried to act chill as I smelt fag smoke on the wind.

After a whilst of being parked behind us, with its engine and lights running whilst we de-tackled, the car turned around and drove back up the track. I don't remember much about it except that I think it was saloon shape - sort of BMW sort of shape - not an SUV.

We left and I didn't think of it again... Til now.



Thanks Anna for reporting this. I am happy to join a work party, and I'm sure I can round up a few more people. If the sponges were left outside the cave entrance or something, my household could do some whilst we're still in T4?

Offline paul

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2021, 11:25:28 pm »
I wonder if it had anything to do with this lot, including a Luke, who posted a video on Youtube on the 30th December. At 8:35 you can see what looks like a spray can in one of their hands...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ueermT78Yto?start=513"
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline tdobson

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2021, 11:35:26 pm »
I wonder if it had anything to do with this lot, including a Luke, who posted a video on Youtube on the 30th December. At 8:35 you can see what looks like a spray can in one of their hands...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ueermT78Yto?start=513"

Just to suggest: yes, this seems very likely indeed.

Forum users: perhaps let's not go into the comments and set them to rights - there may be better things the DCA can do with this and a sensitive approach may be required.


Offline thehungrytroglobite

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2021, 11:42:04 pm »
Tim, I'm guessing there was no graffiti there when you went on the 28th?

It did look pretty recent, and if that's the case it will have happened in the last few days... in which case this is a very likely culprit.

Thanks for the reminder, I will refrain from communicating with the silly boxers.
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Online PeteHall

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2021, 11:43:29 pm »
I think that you can actually see the guy spraying a blue arrow here...

Offline tdobson

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2021, 11:52:43 pm »
Tim, I'm guessing there was no graffiti there when you went on the 28th?

Correct. We went from parking to Chert Hall with no sign of graffiti on evening of the 28th.

Offline pwhole

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2021, 12:16:03 am »
They put all their real names up for us and the authorities on YT (saved). How nice of them. Maybe they sprayed their addresses up too?  :chair:

Offline droid

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2021, 12:25:31 am »
DN4 is a Doncaster post code...
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline gracattack

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2021, 12:59:37 am »
they posted pictures all over social media, including ones of them smoking at the pitch head  :furious:

Offline pwhole

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2021, 01:13:36 am »
Hahah - we don't need Colombo to solve this mystery. It's not even Scooby Doo level...

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2021, 01:28:32 am »
 :o

Offline Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2021, 08:14:12 am »
Hi all. Thanks for the pics and YT links. Can I ask that everyone refrain from any contact with these people that might tip them off in any way so that they don't remove the posts just yet. This has been handed to the police now (a caving policeman). I will post up a crime reference number where other things can be logged when I have one.
Also, you lot are amazing. I have had an inbox full of stuff overnight too.

Offline Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2021, 10:02:10 am »
I've just had a call from a friend of mine who has been down Giant's this morning.
He's photographed and removed all the graffiti he found. Must have taken ages as there were dozens of bits. I'll let folks know if any further clean up action is needed, but it's always worth having a small green scouring pad in your suit pocket these days. No doubt there will be a few extra bits of paint found in time.
Thank you James Blake  :clap2:

Offline RichardB1983

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2021, 10:42:49 am »
Hi all. Thanks for the pics and YT links. Can I ask that everyone refrain from any contact with these people that might tip them off in any way so that they don't remove the posts just yet.

It's not strictly within YT's terms of service, but there are other websites that allow you to download a local copy of videos, that can be kept just in case they remove their own online one.

Offline SamT

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2021, 10:59:03 am »
Whilst it makes my piss boil on the one hand, on the other, they're just copying the type of thing they see in the movies or Bear Grylls types. (spray painting arrows etc).  It actually shows a degree of forethought and DCRO weren't called out to help find a missing team.  Historically caving clubs have usually 'left their mark' at the end of passages etc .

Fair play to them for getting off their arses, driving out from donny to the peak and having a proper adventure. 

But litter and graffiti still make me lose my shit and want to inflict genuine pain.  Marsellus Wallace style.

Perhaps they need taking under someone's wing and showing the ways.


Offline Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2021, 11:40:18 am »
Posted over from Facebook as I don't know if Jon has a log-in here:

"Folks
Would you be kind enough to post any links/photographs you have of the damage to my works email address please
Jonathan.reeves.14006@derbyshire.pnn.police.uk
Regards
Jon"

I'm in agreement with SamT and others, despite the obvious anger that these incidents cause most of us, we must attempt to educate folk who show a desire to explore instead of vilifying them. This graffiti is clearly a terrible thing, but they are probably just copying what they have seen others in their feeds do online. If that is their 'textbook' for safe exploring, then we need to deal with that by better public education. Something like an explorers code of conduct written specifically with non-cavers in mind might go a little way to helping.

 

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