Author Topic: Giant's Vandalism  (Read 8995 times)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2021, 11:49:50 am »
These guys look to have a fair degree of physical fitness and clearly have a desire to explore.
Could it be that, with the right approach / support, they might actually make very good cavers?

No way am I condoning their actions but as several people have thought above, they perhaps simply didn't know any better.

I think Pete K's thoughts on education are well worth taking on board.

Offline SamT

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2021, 11:59:47 am »
I love their "Wow!.. Corr!.. Amazing!!"  type reactions.  Took me back to when I used to feel those kind of reactions from going down new places (still do, just don't get down any new places these days   :confused: ).

Online kay

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2021, 12:34:44 pm »
Yes, I thought the same as Pete K. Their reactions, for example at the waterfall, were genuine appreciation.

The video seems to have been put up by a group of bare knuckle boxers, so, yes, presumably physically fit as Pitlamp suggests.


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2021, 12:58:33 pm »
If I lived a bit nearer I might be tempted to invite them to join in on a real caving trip. They'd probably be up for it, learn a lot in the process (especially about respecting natural phenomena) and have a really good time in the process.

Just imagine if all that energy currently given to their chosen sport were to be directed at a cavers' dig - they could be a real asset in the right company.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2021, 02:27:52 pm »
One major problem is that there is now a Youtube video out there in cyber land which will be seen by others as a demonstration of acceptable behaviour.

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2021, 02:45:18 pm »
The other problem is that part of the online ego that goes with these sort of videos is the 'rebel rule-breaker'.

Doing it 'properly' removes part of the thrill for some of these people.

I don't know if this applies to these people, but as others have said, they were clearly impressed by the place and clearly put in a good effort to travel there and get down the cave. If they could be 'taken under a wing' and shown the ropes in the right sort of way,  they could well become great cavers.

Offline paul

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2021, 03:07:01 pm »
The thing is, if they were so impressed by what they saw, why did they think it was acceptable to just dump their rubbish?
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Offline SamT

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2021, 03:11:10 pm »
Just the way innit... if you come from a shithole, where nobody gives a flying toss about their surrounding, graffiti and litter everywhere, your dad  chucked litter, your brother chucked litter, everyone around drops litter.  Its just the 'done thing' for you as you go through life.  It takes a fundamental shift in thinking to stop.

The other problem is that part of the online ego that goes with these sort of videos is the 'rebel rule-breaker'.

Totally ^^



Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2021, 04:35:28 pm »
This category of caver is not new and will continue to engage in adventures; c'est la vie.

Offline Phild

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2021, 05:41:39 pm »
Far from trying to understand the motives they need/deserve a slap. I was once with George Cooper who was controlling a callout to P8. This was the second call out for this team. George asked for a quiet word, smacked the leader in the teeth and threatened worse if we ever saw them again. We didn’t, see them again that is. Perfect example of 70,s etiquette.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2021, 05:51:42 pm »
Far from trying to understand the motives they need/deserve a slap. I was once with George Cooper who was controlling a callout to P8. This was the second call out for this team. George asked for a quiet word, smacked the leader in the teeth and threatened worse if we ever saw them again. We didn’t, see them again that is. Perfect example of 70,s etiquette.

Presumably I'm reading your post correctly insofar as it appears you are suggesting they are assaulted.

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2021, 06:41:02 pm »
Far from trying to understand the motives they need/deserve a slap. I was once with George Cooper who was controlling a callout to P8. This was the second call out for this team. George asked for a quiet word, smacked the leader in the teeth and threatened worse if we ever saw them again. We didn’t, see them again that is. Perfect example of 70,s etiquette.
Well given that the guy is a bare knuckle boxer,  I can tell you for sure that I wouldn't be lining up to smack him in the teeth, whether or not I thought it was the right solution, which as it happens, I don't.

Online royfellows

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2021, 06:55:38 pm »
Be a shame if he got back to his car and found someone had sprayed arrows all over it.
 ;D
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Offline A_Northerner

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2021, 10:35:35 pm »
I  perfected the technique on the "Land of Dope and Story" slab in Cumberland Cavern last year!

I quite liked that boulder! How old was the graffiti? Did it date back to the Trogs? I'm not sure if the Trogs count as graffiti or archaeology at this point...
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Online pwhole

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2021, 11:16:31 pm »
They're now officially archaeology! See Graffiti in Peak District (England) caves and mines: historic record or mindless vandalism by John Barnatt, Geoff Peppit and Dave Webb - and includes one of my photos of the Troggs graffiti - that very boulder in fact:

https://bcra.org.uk/pub/candks/index.html?j=126

There's also an online supplement with many more photos, including some of the Victorian showcave visitors.

Offline owd git

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2021, 11:10:47 am »

Anyone lay their hands on a cordless power washer - perhaps a bit too powerful, but worth try perhaps.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/worx-hydroshot-22bar-20v-1-5ah-li-ion-powershare-cordless-portable-pressure-washer/503HV?tc=NT8&ds_kid=92700046638549236&ds_rl=1243318&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=Cj0KCQiA88X_BRDUARIsACVMYD8IM-8Vkp_edtY8IegTGRPDCFfsTYEGHt1e7Rk7dTLXsOk0Cl6TLxoaAihNEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

plenty of water down there.
Hey Pete, could  the DCA  afford to invest in one of these? it could be useful elsewhere in the area  ( jug holes bee hive ?) etc'. donation for a session could be a way to re coup outlay maybe. or any locals want to 'chip in?'  O. G. 
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Online Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2021, 11:32:24 am »
The main issue I can see is you only get 15-20 min off one of those batteries. That is not a lot of time. Spare batteries are available, so could easily purchase a couple of 4Ah ones to give a more reasonable run time. Shame there is not a Bosch 18v equivalent as we have a bunch of those batteries already.
I guess we'd be looking at £2250 with extra batteries and dry bag for transport. I'm sure DCA would consider a purchase if there was enough folk who thought it was a useful thing to have available?

Offline wellyjen

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2021, 12:42:30 pm »
Hi all. Thanks for the pics and YT links. Can I ask that everyone refrain from any contact with these people that might tip them off in any way so that they don't remove the posts just yet.

It's not strictly within YT's terms of service, but there are other websites that allow you to download a local copy of videos, that can be kept just in case they remove their own online one.

Youtube-dl is your friend for downloading a local copy of youtube vids that are at risk of disappearing.
https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl
 
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Offline topcat

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2021, 11:45:15 pm »
The main issue I can see is you only get 15-20 min off one of those batteries. That is not a lot of time. Spare batteries are available, so could easily purchase a couple of 4Ah ones to give a more reasonable run time. Shame there is not a Bosch 18v equivalent as we have a bunch of those batteries already.
I guess we'd be looking at £2250 with extra batteries and dry bag for transport. I'm sure DCA would consider a purchase if there was enough folk who thought it was a useful thing to have available?

I bet someone on here could convert it to run on any 18 v battery that folk already have?

Online pwhole

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2021, 01:16:56 am »
I hoped Makita might do a 18V cordless version, seeing as they even manage to flog a heated jacket with one of their batteries (where, pray tell, does that go?), but no, only mains. Time to build the Giants waterwheel?

Online Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2021, 08:18:11 am »
I quick look online shows me that it is possible to buy a converter to make Bosch 18v batteries fit the Worx units (or Makita). I'll do a bit more reading to see how they last (mostly Chinese/Russian imports).

Online Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2021, 08:30:54 am »
Oh, I forgot to say that Al Cash (Gritstone Adventures) made a visit yesterday and continued to clean the bits James could not get to and found the odd extra tag to remove. Thanks Al!

Discussions about signage and gating have occurred on here and FB. DCA is drafting the text of a sign to show the landowner. Maybe installing something in the car park might help. We'll also ask if he wants us to put back the private land signs on the gate he asked us to remove earlier in the year (go figure). I have also started to write a version of the cave conservation code aimed squarely at those who do not fit the normal 'caver' mould or come via the club route. I'll attach a draft for comment later on.
As for a gate on Giants.... it's in the middle of a big chunk of private land and one incident of this type does not justify installing a gate. With that much cover from prying eyes, how long do you think it'd last anyway? A gate on the cave is not the answer.

Also note my corrected typo for the estimate of the cost of the washer. Definitely not £2250!
I guess we'd be looking at £250 with extra batteries and dry bag for transport. I'm sure DCA would consider a purchase if there was enough folk who thought it was a useful thing to have available?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 08:47:30 am by Pete K »

Offline SamT

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2021, 08:58:46 am »
How about something like this..

https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/karcher-khb-5-cordless-18v-multi-jet-body-only?gclid=CjwKCAiAudD_BRBXEiwAudakX_12xuGjnw78icJPv1osnBWAg7vkz93-_wkk7thNMYglb7TAlJzkfBoCnisQAvD_BwE

Put a fly lead on it (in an empty/gutted old battery shell)  then have some sort of fly lead that connects to makita or bosch 18v batteries.

[any further discussion and I might split the topic]

Offline owd git

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2021, 09:03:04 am »
good spot Sam. I have pleanty of 18 v. De walt batteries to run something like that.  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
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Online Pete K

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Re: Giant's Vandalism
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2021, 09:16:58 am »
How about something like this..

https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/karcher-khb-5-cordless-18v-multi-jet-body-only?gclid=CjwKCAiAudD_BRBXEiwAudakX_12xuGjnw78icJPv1osnBWAg7vkz93-_wkk7thNMYglb7TAlJzkfBoCnisQAvD_BwE

Put a fly lead on it (in an empty/gutted old battery shell)  then have some sort of fly lead that connects to makita or bosch 18v batteries.

[any further discussion and I might split the topic]

That looks good Sam, nice find. Maybe worth splitting off the topic as I'm sure there's a bit more to discuss with this.

 

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