P8 - Idiot's Leap Rope (& lost gear)
- Thread starter Edd
- Start date
j_bouchard_
New member
Ed, it has I'm afraid to say. :thumbsdown: It was there until Sunday when our de-rigging crew got a little bit too keen and took it with them. Will be looking to replace this wkd / asap. There was a dynamic looking double length, a knotted static and a small dynamic Y hang - similar set up ?
Cheers, J
Cheers, J
Gollum
Member
We all know the powers that be :thumbsdown:inform us that ropes are not fixed and we need to rig. All my years of caving I have always found idiots leap rigged and so would never think to put a rope in for it unless I was working with a group 
. Same goes for Giants round trip and a number of other systems.
. Same goes for Giants round trip and a number of other systems.
paul
Moderator
Gollum said:We all know the powers that be :thumbsdown:inform us that ropes are not fixed and we need to rig. All my years of caving I have always found idiots leap rigged and so would never think to put a rope in for it unless I was working with a group
It isn't a question of "powers that be".
The point is that the ropes are only there thanks to a caver who left it there previously (and I have done this on many occasions myself in different locations) so if the rope were to be removed, then it may or may not be there when you may have taken it for granted that it would be.
And in all my years of caving I have found the rope missing on several occasions and may or may not have left one rigged myself afterwards.
martinm
New member
Well said Paul. I myself don't even use any rope that's rigged there, I just traverse over the drop on the natural ledges on both walls a couple of metres above the floor. I have done so while watching other people struggling to pull themselves up on the rope that was rigged on the actual drop!
r_walklate@hotmail.com
New member
I think you could add to the argument that you never know the history of something that's not yours. Maybe the argument goes future to removing fixed ropes completely?!!!!
r_walklate:
A valid point . . . and you could argue, say, that if I want to do a bog-standard through trip from County Pot to Lancaster Hole, I should be prepared to go down LH and do any prerigging that was necessary . . . BUT I'd be pretty miffed if I set off down County, got to Stop Pot and found that the fixed ladder had been removed (not to mention the ropes at Stake Pot and Fall Pot).
A valid point . . . and you could argue, say, that if I want to do a bog-standard through trip from County Pot to Lancaster Hole, I should be prepared to go down LH and do any prerigging that was necessary . . . BUT I'd be pretty miffed if I set off down County, got to Stop Pot and found that the fixed ladder had been removed (not to mention the ropes at Stake Pot and Fall Pot).
david3392
Member
Hmm, isn't there a sign by the stile that advises visiting cavers that certain pitches may or may not be rigged? I can't remember the exact wording but it's clear that cavers shouldn't assume the leap has a rope in situ.Gollum said:We all know the powers that be :thumbsdown:inform us that ropes are not fixed and we need to rig. All my years of caving I have always found idiots leap rigged and so would never think to put a rope in for it unless I was working with a group
Peacey
New member
There were several ropes on there 2 weeks ago but we rigged our own as I never trust others especially ones that have been there that long...got out of the cave to be greeted by a snowman too that someone had built while we were down there !!! all I'm going to say is it was a male snowman that was very pleased to see us lol
j_bouchard_
New member
Morning, a white double length static line has been taken to p8 saturday just gone. Unfortunately the entrance was too iced up to consider a run to idiots leap to rig it. Body sized hole after kicking off quite a bit of it, but still didn't fancy my chances.
Ive left it in the cubby hole above the entrance. It's knotted one side and free the other to be as close a replacement for the previous rope(s) and is intended to be y hung from both ends. Plan was to follow through the butterflies and not use any metal work. It's quite a way for me to come back and do the honours so if someone wouldn't mind that's nearby or next down that would be really helpful.
Our group's mistake was genuine after a cold day rather than any act of purism (!) The previous day I found the insitu line very handy hence our desire to replace.
Cheers J
RUCC
Ive left it in the cubby hole above the entrance. It's knotted one side and free the other to be as close a replacement for the previous rope(s) and is intended to be y hung from both ends. Plan was to follow through the butterflies and not use any metal work. It's quite a way for me to come back and do the honours so if someone wouldn't mind that's nearby or next down that would be really helpful.
Our group's mistake was genuine after a cold day rather than any act of purism (!) The previous day I found the insitu line very handy hence our desire to replace.
Cheers J
RUCC
DAN
New member
What about the ladders in oxlow that where removed, that was one of the best trips of the Peak District and the ladder made the trip happen a lot more. Loads of the younger generations of cavers have not been there due to this ladder not being there. I would consider putting them back if the bunch Lemons who decieded they needed to be removed would leave them alone.
Dan
Dan
There is an argument for putting fixed aids on pitches that cannot be rigged (since they go up not down!) and were initially climbed by maypoling or in more recent years bolting. removing them would render several trips virtually impossible.
Cluttering up underground systems with stemples, ladders etc might be acceptable in old mines particularly if they were placed by t'owd mon (but they don't last forever and do become unsafe at some point-I've seen several break in use.) but I would prefer to leave caves without the tat we used to find in them- which was a good reason for bolting.
If we took it to a "logical" conclusion maybe we should put ladders on Block Hall, Ventilator, Calcite Aven, Cliff Cavern and many others.
Cluttering up underground systems with stemples, ladders etc might be acceptable in old mines particularly if they were placed by t'owd mon (but they don't last forever and do become unsafe at some point-I've seen several break in use.) but I would prefer to leave caves without the tat we used to find in them- which was a good reason for bolting.
If we took it to a "logical" conclusion maybe we should put ladders on Block Hall, Ventilator, Calcite Aven, Cliff Cavern and many others.
Chocolate fireguard
Active member
I wouldn`t have thought many people remembered them.Dan said: