Pantin Technique

Madness

New member
Is there a particular technique for ascending using a Petzl Pantin in addition to a normal 'frog' SRT rig?

I got given a Pantin a couple of weeks ago and decided to give it a go when coming out of Rowter last night. Trouble is that every couple of steps it decided to unclip itself from the rope. After about a dozen atempts I gave up and reverted to the basic 'frog' technique.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong. One thing I need to say is that the spring on the Pantin is a lot weeker than my other ascenders. I don't know if it's supposed to be like that.
 

MarkS

Moderator
I think lots of practise and keeping as upright as possible are probably the main things that help with avoiding the Pantin detaching from the rope. It should have 2 springs in, and the first that engages is a weak spring, but the second should be a stronger spring that does a sort of pseudo-catch job.

Before I started using one, I remember watching someone else rope-walking and thinking it looked like cycling backwards. I find that following this general technique works well: keeping the Pantin foot forwards when moving it up the rope, then further backwards when standing up on it keeps you as upright as possible and minimises the chance of the rope coming out.

There have been various suggestions on here in the past (worth a search) of clipping a crab or poking elastic into the hole that's present in the old-style Pantin to keep the rope engaged. Personally I've never really done that, and haven't had a lot of problems with it disengaging after I'd practised with it for a bit. I don't think it's even an option on the newer Pantins.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
Hi Madness, I just couldn't get to grips with my Pantin . . . . it kept coming off . . .


until someone pointed out that I was trying to use in on the wrong foot. It works fine on the proper foot.
 

Simon Wilson

New member
Petzl have got the design pretty good and one of the best features is that it can be removed from the rope easily. It means you can prussic up into a constricted pitch head, position yourself using small steps and a straight body if need be and then flick your foot off the rope without having to reach down.

If you practice flicking it off the rope then that will probably teach you how to keep it on the rope.
 

Chocolate fireguard

Active member
I knew somebody who had their Pantin on the wrong way and on the wrong foot. He had similar problems, but assuming you have yours fitted properly, when you raise your feet you need to keep them (or at least the one with the Pantin) far enough out in front of you so as to keep the rope from opening the cam.

This is against the instincts of many who are used to frogging with both feet in the loop, because they often keep their feet from swinging out even when raising them. I found it difficult at first.
Once your weight is on the Pantin you obviously get your feet back under your C of G as before.

It sounds faffy but soon comes naturally, and because the rope from the Croll to the Pantin is shorter than the footloop there is less of a tendancy for it to swing forwards, making it easier to adopt an efficient style.

The weaker spring makes it (fairly) easy to disengage the Pantin with a smart backwards kick, and the rope slides through easily at the start of a pitch, eliminating the need to pull the rope through the Croll.
On long open free-hanging pitches like Rowter, Titan, the big Derbyshire engine shafts and many classic Dales pitches it makes ascending so much easier. Especially with a tackle sack hanging from the central maillon, because you can keep the rope from getting twisted round your tackle-hauling strop (sometimes called a donkey's dick by rude people).
On inclined pitches slackening the chest strap lets you rope walk up the wall (eg short sections in Nettle entrance pitch and Maskhill entrance pitch)

I think it's well worth persevering with, but I believe some people can't be doing with them at all.

There are traps to avoid.
The obvious one of forgetting about it when passing a rebelay or deviation.
When hauling tackle, note there is room in the Pantin for a 9mm or 8mm pitch rope AND a thin donkeys dick. A friend did this in the Narrows at Nettle. I did it as lead climber when tandeming  Titan entrance pitch. It's difficult to get out of.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
In narrow pitches where you can't reach down to put it back on, I find a toes-outwards approach works well with the Pantin, aiming to keep the feet pointing away from each other and taking smaller steps - this seems to stop it coming off most of the time. And when up against a wall (or better still, between two comfortably spaced walls, like most of Bitch Pitch in JH), you can almost double the distance climbed by using alternate steps, though it is more strenuous and you'll need strong thighs. But it's definitely not twice as strenuous, so there is a huge speed advantage there if you're able to use it, especially if there's a few on the trip waiting to climb out.

Doing it in free space is much more knackering, but violently pulling the rope above in towards you as you step up definitely helps in keeping a vertical line. It's usually more efficient to just use a comfortable frog position in those cases and save your energy. Climbing Technology used to do a foot-ascender with a release catch, like a chest ascender, but they seem to have dropped it. The narrow pitch problem was the reason to avoid it - if you can't reach down to release it and you can't kick it off, what do you do?

I was also on the Nettle trip mentioned by Chocolate Fireguard, and remember it well as a precautionary Pantin tale. Mind you, it was probably the last time I abseiled and prussicked 50m on 8mm...
 

blackshiver

Member
I have been guilty of borrowing a Pantin, putting it on the wrong foot and handing it back with a rant at how rubbish it was. Embarrasing.
 

Madness

New member
Thanks for the replies.

I'm now wondering if I had it on the correct foot. I put it on my left foot. In hindsight perhaps I should have made sure which foot it was designed for. It's green in colour and I thought ones for the right foot were gold.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
Yeah; mine's green, and it works on my right-hand foot (but not the left-hand one without coming off).
 

mikem

Well-known member
If it doesn't say left or right, then there should be a picture of a person on it & he should be the same way around as you are when wearing it...

Mike
 

AliRoll

Member
You can also buy a catch that you can fit to the pantin, much like one on a hand or chest jammer that stops it falling off. I find it most useful, just not great for tight pitch heads as you need to reach down to remove it.
 

Rachel

Active member
I have a gold one..it's left footed.

I originally bought a right and just couldn't get on with it no matter how much I practised, but as soon as I swapped to a left, I was away.
 

cavemanmike

Active member
I find if you point your toes down when you lift your pantin leg and then point your toes up and put your weight on your heel when you stand on your Pantin leg. Take it nice and slow at first and you will be running up before you know it
 

skippy

Active member
Here's another quirk I find when using a pantin...has anyone else come across this?

Partway up a long pitches, my croll does not engage properly and will slip(up to 10 inches in some cases  :eek: ). At first, I thought it was the croll. Now I suspect its 'lazy' prussicing when using a pantin. If I stand up on the pantin foot and my foot isn't directly in line with my body when I weight the croll, it causes the cam to remain open....and slips.
The first few times it happened it caused me near cardiac arrest....now I'm quite used to it.
I've had the croll looked at and there's nowt wrong with it....I now just put it down to crap technique.

Has anyone else experienced this?
 

Mattrees

Member
Chocolate fireguard said:
When hauling tackle, note there is room in the Pantin for a 9mm or 8mm pitch rope AND a thin donkeys dick.... I did it as lead climber when tandeming  Titan entrance pitch. It's difficult to get out of.

:eek:

How did you? Bring foot high enough to disengage by hand?
 

MarkS

Moderator
skippy said:
Here's another quirk I find when using a pantin...has anyone else come across this?

Partway up a long pitches, my croll does not engage properly and will slip(up to 10 inches in some cases  :eek: ). At first, I thought it was the croll. Now I suspect its 'lazy' prussicing when using a pantin. If I stand up on the pantin foot and my foot isn't directly in line with my body when I weight the croll, it causes the cam to remain open....and slips.
The first few times it happened it caused me near cardiac arrest....now I'm quite used to it.
I've had the croll looked at and there's nowt wrong with it....I now just put it down to crap technique.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Yes. When the top teeth have worn down slightly this seems fairly common. Getting into the habit of taking weight off the Pantin before sitting down seems to sort it, but as you say, it can take you by surprise! I'm using a fairly old Turbochest currently and I certainly experience it with that. I know someone else who has the same with a well-used old-style Croll.
 
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