Bat Hibernation

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wormster

Guest
It has long been established in caving circles that there is a "Closed Season" in certain caves to allow bats to hibernate.

With the recent attention and worry about climate change, I have a question:

Are bats still hibernating in their "traditional" period, or has bats hibernation period changed?

does anybody have any impirical evedence to the contrary.

(hides behind sofa & awaits results)
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
IIRC bats don't hibernate in the traditional sense of the word, rather they go into a state of torpor but resume an active existence from time to time to drink and will feed if circumstances (weather) permits; however, they do need to be left undisturbed as much as possible since every time they become active they use up some of their scarce energy reserves, the more disturbance they experience, the less likely they are to have adequate reserves to safely see them through the winter. I would imagine, therefore, that if there is any impact from global warming it would largely be beneficial to the UK bat populace since it would give them more opportunities to feed - whether or not the insect population is negatively or positively affected by the weather is a secondary issue about which I wouldn't have a clue.

However, since studying bats is blimmin' difficult, I expect it's a bit early for any scientific research to have worked out whether there's any impact on indigenous species from climate change - assuming, of course, that climate change is actually happening (and there's plenty of evidence to strongly suggest that all this paranoia and worry is total bollocks but that's another thread!).
 

graham

New member
Don't take the risk. In the UK, the fine for disturbing a hibernating bat is £5,000 - per bat.
 

kay

Well-known member
cap 'n chris said:
IIRC bats don't hibernate in the traditional sense of the word, rather they go into a state of torpor but resume an active existence from time to time to drink and will feed if circumstances (weather) permits; however, they do need to be left undisturbed as much as possible since every time they become active they use up some of their scarce energy reserves, the more disturbance they experience, the less likely they are to have adequate reserves to safely see them through the winter. I would imagine, therefore, that if there is any impact from global warming it would largely be beneficial to the UK bat populace since it would give them more opportunities to feed - whether or not the insect population is negatively or positively affected by the weather is a secondary issue about which I wouldn't have a clue.

Insects are more able to cope with warmer weather. They're cold blooded, they need the heat for energy. Cold winters are good for pest control. :)

There are only about 4 species of bat in N England, many more species in the south. So in theory if the average temperatues in the UK increased, the more southern species would be able to extend their ranges northwards - as long as they weren't limited by something further down the food chain (eg plants at the bottom of the chain not being able to move their range sufficiently quickly)
 

francis

New member
How common is it to see bats going caving? I have never seen one before when caving in the dales.

Francis
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Although generally quite elusive creatures, down here they are seen most commonly flitting around during dusk outdoors - probably the easiest and most accessible way of viewing them BTW; lucky cavers can occasionally see them in certain well known caves hereabouts too depending on the time of year. As a general rule cavers shouldn't go "looking" for bats and should be quiet and slow moving in their presence.
 

whitelackington

New member
I know Bracknell does not have many  caves but we do have rather alot of cavers. :clap:

We do also have a stunning amount of bats.

Not at all sure wot species, most common are the smaller b*****s but have occasionally seen much bigger ones.
Mind u we also have a fantastic amount of deer, including montjac,
these I belive are from China, don't know if they walked all the way.
When I were a lad, we also had red squirrels but not seen any of those for forty years, millions of grey b*****s those, stripping the trees.
Recently we have had red kites & buzzards moving in, now here all the time, also rather a lot of lizards, snakes, foxes, rabitts, moles but very few hares.

The main reason is the forest.
Legally Bracknell is actually known as Bracknell Forest.
Binfield, one of our villages, where our pub is, used to be the center of Windsor Forest,
which was a Royal Hunting ground.
Untill about 1800, Royal Berkshire was the least populated of all the home counties, this because it was mainly forest, kept that way on purpose.
Some of the trees in "Windsor Forest" an infinately bigger forest (Royal Park) in the past, were there before the Norman Invasion.
These trees are mainly Oak but also Yew & Sweet Chestnut.
That is a little strange as it had been said that the Normans introduced
sweet chestnuts. So, IMHO it was probably The Romans who introduced them but both The Romans & The Normans introduced or perhaps reintroduced many species of plants & animals into Britain.
Ireland is much poorer species wise than us, France is much species richer than us, mainly to do with the glaciations.

So, it is my belief that we have so many bats around Bracknell as
(if u don't count The New Forest) we have the biggest forest in
the south East of England :clap: Also we have a huge amount of lakes, these are the left overs from clay, sand, gravel extraction but also as we are so close to Windsor Castle, there are a huge amount of mansions, all with their own lakes.
These attract insects, which attract bats.
As I said, some of thee actual trees are more than a thousand years old.
This also means than many species live in, on, off these ancient living things, greatly increasing the biodiversity.
Britain as a whole, has more ancient trees, than the rest of western europe put together.
The reason for that is royal or rich peoples hunting grounds / parks.
 
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Walrus

Guest
I had a look at his site: http://www.bats.org.uk/ and it doesn't mention (or is hard to find) what an 'acceptable' population level is.

If the protection laws were relaxed because the population had recovered to 'original' levels (again, cant find what they were estimated as) how would this affect cave (and mine!) access and preservation?


BTW: I like bats!
 

AndyF

New member
francis said:
How common is it to see bats going caving? I have never seen one before when caving in the dales.

Francis

I've seen them in a few Welsh caves, can't rememeber which, and we've seen 2-3 in Waterways over the years. They prefer barns and outbuildings than caves, where it is drier generally.

Seen millions at a time flying out of Carlsbad Caverns each night, quite a spectacle....

 

Peter Burgess

New member
Not at all sure wot species, most common are the smaller b*****s

These are likely to be Pipistrelles, which don't go near caves or mines as a rule, and are the most common of our bats.

The only bats that are highly dependent on underground sites during the winter are the Greater and Lesser Horseshoes. Other species do also use caves and mines, and it is just as important not to disturb these as well - Daubentons, Natterers, Long-eared etc. But they use mines and caves out of preference more than necessity. A convenient old building or tree would also serve just as well for the purpose of hibernation. This info is from a respected bat researcher, who also happens to be a keen mine historian.

Going back to the original question, in Surrey we have been advised that the start of the hibernating season has moved back significantly, and the local bat group only start their monitoring visits in December. It's only in the last week or so that the nights have been cold enough for frosts. I can remember when frosty nights started in the middle of October - but this is rare now. The leaves only turned colour and dropped in the last couple of weeks. 20 years back, the majority of leaves were on the ground by Bonfire Night - this year the majority of them were still green!


 

paul

Moderator
francis said:
How common is it to see bats going caving? I have never seen one before when caving in the dales.

Francis

I've never seen a bat going caving!  ;)

I've seen a few bats in Peak District caves over the years but the most I have seen were in South Wales, especially Ogof Draenen where they were roosting on small boulders right next to the normal "path" taken by cavers.

Generally you don't often see bats underground on Britain - at least in my experience.

If you want to see very big bats, try caves in Thailand: they're HUGE (and so are the mounds of their bat sh*t)
!
 

francis

New member
I do remember once, coming out of bar pot finding the entrance closed by a very large net and having to be let out. Two people were doing a bat survey and were ring marking them (i think). They had just put up the net so there were no bats to be seen at the time.

Francis
 
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darkplaces

Guest
Something I disagree with is bat ringing and physically capturing bats that these people do in the name of conservation. How stressed out would you be if some giant trapped you and grabbed you then tagged you. Worse for the animals then just quietly creeping by and just watching them as cavers do.

I seen lots of bats. They ignore me as I creep by.
 

stealth

New member
Something I disagree with is bat ringing and physically capturing bats that these people do in the name of conservation. How stressed out would you be if some giant trapped you and grabbed you then tagged you.


couldnt agree with you more, leave ,em alone
 

graham

New member
Nah, it doesn't do the bats any harm at all and allows us to learn about their habits and lives such that we can avoid harming them in the future.
 
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darkplaces

Guest
graham said:
Nah, it doesn't do the bats any harm at all and allows us to learn about their habits and lives such that we can avoid harming them in the future.
I'm gona build a big scary robot to grab you by the ankle while your sleeping and bolt a tracker onto you  :ras: plus its gona come back one day and check you haven't nibbled it off.
 
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