If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
Tim Allen's introduction at The Petzl Underground Session, Kendal Mountain Festival last night.

Apologies for the visual, however his words are worth a listen....

https://youtu.be/-IYMRNUQJxw
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
....and it goes without saying (however I'm going to say it anyway (y)), UKC isn't just Tim and I, it's the Moderation team too + every single caver who uses the forum -thank you one and all  (y)

Thanks also to everyone who spoke and supported the Petzl Underground Session - I'll put a few photos up when I get a chance  (y) ;)
 

chunky

Well-known member
Yep a great and well thought out opening to the session. Bit nerve wracking but very enjoyable! [emoji106]
1e8bfb37c0ffc6ce8866986c63c37a78.jpg


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Kenilworth

New member
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?
 

maxf

New member
Kenilworth said:
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?

It sounds like you completely missed the point of his speech...
 

NewStuff

New member
maxf said:
Kenilworth said:
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?

It sounds like you completely missed the point of his speech...

It's deliberate. He's a troll. Ignore it.
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
analogy
??nal?d?i/Submit
noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
 

Kenilworth

New member
maxf said:
Kenilworth said:
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?

It sounds like you completely missed the point of his speech...

Did I? I believed it to say that caving deserves a larger public profile and wider recognition, such as that had by climbing. It seemed to me to say that the Three Counties System deserves the general recognition and traffic that Mont Blanc has, based on nothing more than its relative size rank. If he meant something different, I would surely like to know what it was.
 

Kenilworth

New member
Pegasus said:
analogy
??nal?d?i/Submit
noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

Yes Pegasus, I am a great lover of analogy. But none was really made in the speech. It was all quantitative and didn't explain or clarify anything to me. It highlighted a difference with no effort to explain why there was a difference, then concluded that there should be no difference.
 

mikem

Well-known member
It was a Mountaineering Festival, hence a suitable comparison for the potential audience.

Mike
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
The Swiss are immortalising their landscape in their cutlery designs: https://www.swiss-knife.com/en/cutlery/panorama-knife/panoramaknife-pocket-knife-best-of-switzerland-3.html
I think Tim's talk was really good.  Thing is caves are still largely hidden despite their massive relevance to the wider understanding of the world and aren't really the facilitators of mass tourism.  You can wander far and wide over hill and dale, but not in a cave. There is also the ingrained preaching DNA over centuries that caves are bad places to be which has its limits to commercial and other activities.
 

BradW

Member
Kenilworth said:
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?
I am with you Kenilworth. Why on earth would we want to draw parallels between caves and other natural features? The thing that makes caves so special is fundamentally unique to caves. I can't think of a parallel and trying to draw one simply leads to unwanted misconceptions. That said, everyone has their own natural way of trying to get a message over, and I suppose Tim Allen was simply using the way that is most comfortable to him.
 

tony from suffolk

Well-known member
An excellent speech, an entirely appropriate analogy for the point Tim was making. Maybe some of you need to listen to it again, if you really fail to grasp this.
 

Kenilworth

New member
tony from suffolk said:
An excellent speech, an entirely appropriate analogy for the point Tim was making. Maybe some of you need to listen to it again, if you really fail to grasp this.

I listened again. Can someone just tell me what the point was, so I can quit worrying about it?
 

Simon Wilson

New member
Nobody has done more than Tim in recent years in the UK to promote caving, cave access and cave conservation. He has a gift for helping people think about caves in new and different ways and is a great ambassador for caving.

Actually, possibly, nobody has ever done as much for those causes anywhere, ever.
 

JoshW

Well-known member
Kenilworth said:
tony from suffolk said:
An excellent speech, an entirely appropriate analogy for the point Tim was making. Maybe some of you need to listen to it again, if you really fail to grasp this.

I listened again. Can someone just tell me what the point was, so I can quit worrying about it?

Such a blatant troll, can't believe people still entertain you in conversation.

I personally enjoyed the analogy, and have massive respect for both Tim and Jane for the work they do in promoting caving to the wider 'outdoorsy' population. The caving community has an aging population, and the work they're doing to get the next generation of youngsters involved in the sport cannot be underestimated. So bugger off back under your bridge, troll.
 
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