Scrappycaver
New member
More threats ..haven't we heard all this before ?
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NewStuff said:Has anyone bothered to actually go and check this? Is someone actually digging again, or is it still abandoned?
PeteHall said:NewStuff said:Has anyone bothered to actually go and check this? Is someone actually digging again, or is it still abandoned?
If you go to check, you'll doubtless get accused of restarting the dig!
It would be nice to see a copy of the insurance as the second showcave has two entrances and obviously doesn't invalidate the policy . Surely wardens can have a key based on trust.alastairgott said:Peak cavern works well with a locked entrance to the rest of the cave. but then I think that the lock is more to keep unsuspecting people from entering the cave, the main big gate stops people from getting in and out. The smaller door inside stops people from going further in.
To me this system seems to work, I think there is a great fear of the unknown from this one. If the dig is so close to getting in, then a bad winter might see it happen, whether cavers are involved or not. I would say that obtaining the relevant permissions to dig a SSSI, conversing with the showcave owner to alleviate any misgivings and inform the wider caving community that money will be needed to secure both entrances. Derbyshire key on the top entrance and a lock on the bottom.
The sooner you prepare, the less hassle it will be. Doing work for the showcave owner will only put you in the good books.
This grill would be permanently locked with access allowed only to cave rescue should a second entrance be made into the system
The DYOCAP were not aware of the showcave owners statement nor from my recent conversations were the NRW present. The gate was also installed 4 years ago drilling and bolting in a SSSI ,which in the dyo digging policy states no bolting !Martin Laverty said:Scrappycaver makes a good point about the fragility of the insurance argument for DYO, when it doesn't get invoked for Tunnel Cave, and is resoundingly backed up by alastairgott's reference to the Peak Cavern showcave which connects to Speedwell (another showcave), as well as the JH and Titan entrances.
I wonder who the anonymous Administrator at darknessbelow is?,
and why has it been deemed useful to expand a rumour ('At a recent meeting of the Dan yr Ogof Conservation Panel, Natural Resources Wales (NRW) revealed that a dig thought to be above the Mazeways area of the cave may have been restarted.') into another homage to the wisdom of access committees/ cave management groups / conservation advisory panels?
In S Wales we now have four of these groups, none of which now report on their meetings, and few of which reveal the identity of any of their members. The PDCMG used to be quite democratic (albeit jerrymandered) but has ceased to publish details of its meetings or show any interest in maintaining its website; the MLCMAC has a more attractive website, but says virtually nothing about its composition or meetings - we just get to see who the secretary is because it is part of his website [http://mlcmac.org]; the OFDCMG [http://ofdcmc.org.uk/] has an attractive website, but only names its secretary; while the DYOCAP has an excellent website [http://www.dyo.org.uk], but reveals the identities of none of its officials, nor of when the meeting which started this thread took place.
I suppose we must trust that these shady operations really do aim to help all cavers get into dark places rather than just keep them in the dark about what is really behind all this. But S Wales does seem to be like a black hole into which caving news disappears with only faint echos of any activity emerging.
As shown hereScrappycaver said:The DYOCAP were not aware of the showcave owners statement nor from my recent conversations were the NRW present. The gate was also installed 4 years ago drilling and bolting in a SSSI ,which in the dyo digging policy states no bolting !Martin Laverty said:Scrappycaver makes a good point about the fragility of the insurance argument for DYO, when it doesn't get invoked for Tunnel Cave, and is resoundingly backed up by alastairgott's reference to the Peak Cavern showcave which connects to Speedwell (another showcave), as well as the JH and Titan entrances.
I wonder who the anonymous Administrator at darknessbelow is?,
and why has it been deemed useful to expand a rumour ('At a recent meeting of the Dan yr Ogof Conservation Panel, Natural Resources Wales (NRW) revealed that a dig thought to be above the Mazeways area of the cave may have been restarted.') into another homage to the wisdom of access committees/ cave management groups / conservation advisory panels?
In S Wales we now have four of these groups, none of which now report on their meetings, and few of which reveal the identity of any of their members. The PDCMG used to be quite democratic (albeit jerrymandered) but has ceased to publish details of its meetings or show any interest in maintaining its website; the MLCMAC has a more attractive website, but says virtually nothing about its composition or meetings - we just get to see who the secretary is because it is part of his website [http://mlcmac.org]; the OFDCMG [http://ofdcmc.org.uk/] has an attractive website, but only names its secretary; while the DYOCAP has an excellent website [http://www.dyo.org.uk], but reveals the identities of none of its officials, nor of when the meeting which started this thread took place.
I suppose we must trust that these shady operations really do aim to help all cavers get into dark places rather than just keep them in the dark about what is really behind all this. But S Wales does seem to be like a black hole into which caving news disappears with only faint echos of any activity emerging.
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Alex said:I am being told the other entrance may be beyond sumps, if so then that is a total loss of access to most of the cave unless you are diver. Does anyone know one way or the other?
maxf said:Alex said:I am being told the other entrance may be beyond sumps, if so then that is a total loss of access to most of the cave unless you are diver. Does anyone know one way or the other?
If it enters Mazwways 3 then yes it's beyond a sump, two sumps in wets condition..
It's covered on "dankness below" which can be googled. A hilarious read !2xw said:Don't worry Pete, it seems it's already been covered by other news organisations
Simon Beck said:No permission required but all trips must be warden-led? Kind of a contradiction if you ask me. Non of my business to comment, I don't cave in that region, but sounds like a bloody monopoly to me.