Author Topic: BBC Ultimate Caving  (Read 13765 times)

BenM

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BBC Ultimate Caving
« on: August 29, 2007, 10:36:50 am »
Thought I'd start a new thread such that any responces don't get lost in the main "Was it good or not" topic
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Personally I thought it was an absolutly brilliant program - a great advertisement for caving!  :thumbsup:

I was just wondering if anybody knew the legalitys of showing a program like this in a public place like a University freshers fair or "try caving" event? Personally I think it would be a fantastic thing to have running on the stand...

If the legal things are ok.. I'm guessing the next problem is getting an early release copy from the BBC? Or if its ok to show in a public place - i.e can Uni's simply use VCR recordings?

Any comments or suggestions anybody? Any lawyers out there?

Offline SamT

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2007, 11:23:09 am »

Quote
can Uni's simply use VCR recordings

I suspect they can if they dont tell anyone.

Chances of getting caught by the beeb, well thats for you to decide..

 Perhaps one of the production team happened to be showing their son/daughter round the freshers fair.

Possible outcomes - told not to do it again or heafty litigation process involving sueing the individuals or the student union for breach of copyright.

You choose which is most likely.

Offline ianball11

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2007, 11:24:05 am »
Not for profit, I would show it.

Ian B.

Offline ian.p

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2007, 01:45:52 pm »
i doubt youd have a problem with the beeb as they have little to gain from going after people who show the programs as they dont have to worry to much about making money theyve already said they dont realy care about people showing there programs on youtube so i doubt theyd get to uptight about somone showing a caving vid at a freshers fair

Offline Skyrmy

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2007, 12:09:55 pm »
Although on the whole it was an excellent programme and credit to everyone who took part in the making of it, but I did cringe a couple of times, as some of the comments made were not entirely endearing to someone who was teetering on the brink of trying activity this for themselves!!!

Words like "tight", "horrendous" etc would be more likely to put someone off having a go than anything - but hey, thats my only gripe about it.

Offline ianball11

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2007, 12:24:44 pm »
It's at a fresher fair though, loud music, loads of people trying to convince people needs to be visual rather than a lecture etc.  Get attractive girls to man your stall.  :thumbsup:


Ian B.

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2007, 12:27:58 pm »
Get attractive girls to man your stall.

 :-\

I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Downer

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2007, 05:26:25 pm »
Yes, "tight" and "horrendous" might very well put people off. And quite rightly too as a lot of caving is indeed tight and horrendous, isn't it? Long crawls and 160m rope climbs are not exactly beginners' stuff anyway: as usual the beeb was making a film to entertain couch potatos by scaring the pants off delicate little female presenters. I doubt whether Kate Humble would be able to rig a Y-hang on her own even after her SC experience! She was just dragged around by experienced cavers, so what did the program say about real caving? Zilch. They even managed, if memory serves, to shuffle shots from different parts of the trips, flashing from below the Twenty in Swildon's back to the entrance climb and then off to Sump One, losing all sense of the Streamway's continuity in the process. Well, if it keeps the idiots out, that's a good thing. At least it didn't encourage people to treat caves as adventure playgrounds. [growl]

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 05:41:22 pm »
Well, if it keeps the idiots out, that's a good thing.

Assuming that you are correct in your statement that keeping idiots out is good, let's extend the logic and pose the question "Would getting rid of the idiots who are already in also be good and, if so, what's your definition of an idiot?".

BenM

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2007, 06:15:33 pm »
beeb was making a film to entertain couch potatos
Well I found it quite entertaining... does that make me a King Edward, or perhaps a Pentland Squire?

She was just dragged around by experienced cavers
I'm sure most of us have been "dragged" around caves by exprienced cavers when we started out. Isn't that the safest way to learn?

Well, if it keeps the idiots out, that's a good thing.
No No No.. you've got it all wrong! The more idiots the better I say... could do with a few more in the digging team!

From my perspective I already have 3 requests from guys at work to go caving, 4 from housemates (inc 2 girls :o  ;)) and my dad! So comon.. it can't have been all that bad!

Offline AndyF

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2007, 06:23:02 pm »
Upload to YouTube, then show the Youtube version, they dont seem too worried about copyright LOL
"Life's a pitch, then you fall down one..."

Downer

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2007, 06:35:46 pm »
I have nothing against being dragged around by experts! However, as the program observed, that does not make one a caver, so the program didn't really convey the experience of caving.

And yes, I would like to see the idiots removed from the existing crowd of cavers, especially the ones who take their ladder home without re-rigging the pitch with mine. And the ones who chuck rocks at stal in the roof to see it break. Unfortunately, I can't see Ultimate Caving making much difference to that sort, so it is all down to Darwin...

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2007, 06:51:26 pm »
This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase 'putting a downer' on an excellent program.

Downer

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2007, 06:59:40 pm »
"This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase 'putting a downer' on an excellent program."

I shall change my moniker to Upper forthwith :)

Offline damian

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2007, 08:07:41 pm »
From my perspective I already have 3 requests from guys at work to go caving, 4 from housemates (inc 2 girls :o  ;)) and my dad! So comon.. it can't have been all that bad!

I've had a few people want to try it too ... and one person who was so scared by the Long Crawl he had to turn the tv off - don't think caving's for him!

Webby

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2007, 02:57:40 pm »
I have been meaning to have a go at Caving for some time, although without really looking into it tbh! After watching Ultimate Caving i decided to get off my ar$e, contacted a couple of clubs, and now i'm very much looking forward to my first trip... The programme certainly inspired me.... cheers Kate!  :kiss2:

Dave H

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2007, 03:34:37 pm »
... and one person who was so scared by the Long Crawl he had to turn the tv off - don't think caving's for him!
Apparently the producer had to go through the crawl 3 times and was so scared that they had to take beta blockers  :o
Hat's off to them I say - they probably got more out of the experience than anyone else  :thumbsup:

Downer

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2007, 03:49:09 pm »
I have been meaning to have a go at Caving for some time, although without really looking into it tbh! After watching Ultimate Caving i decided to get off my ar$e, contacted a couple of clubs, and now i'm very much looking forward to my first trip... The programme certainly inspired me.... cheers Kate!  :kiss2:
Good for you! If you've been inspired by Ultimate Caving, that's great. I do know the first two trips that Kate Humble did and they are challenging enough for beginners but not the nightmares that the program made them out to be. I gather the third one is OK too and am looking forwards to doing it myself - as an old, unfit, lapsed caver.  I guarantee you'll get the bug. You won't meet Kate though, I think she's "done" caving now!

Dave - that's a good point about the crew, they must have done ten times more work than poor old suffering Kate  :ras:



Offline underground

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2007, 10:04:00 pm »
I thought it was a fantastic program - don't forget it's a rare thing to see caving on TV, especially UK caving on the beeb - they made it into a programme for the viewers rather than the cavers.

I think Kate and Steve did exceptionally well, they went from Long churn to Titan in a very short time, they should be applauded for accomplishing what they did, and doing it in good spirits in spite of personal reservations. the rest of us in the circumstances would have had the luxury of just going home when it got nasty...

In respect of the copyright, AFAIK you're OK if it is BBC broadcast stuff only - i.e. has not been made into a commercial release yet. I think this also means it is OK for playing, just not for distribution.

You could do much worse than ask the BBC.

VivB

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2007, 10:32:37 pm »
There was a caving bit in last saturday's guardian too with kate humble doing an essay, and andy sparrow talking about getting into it and a few named caves and photos.  Called it "white knuckle" for thrill rating, so perhaps not dispelling that idea.  On the whole, well represented i thought.

For the freshers stall, get fit girls to man the stall by all means, but get some fit blokes too! ;)

Hope it goes well.

andymorgan

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2007, 11:26:54 pm »

Downer

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2007, 12:24:39 am »
For the freshers stall, get fit girls to man the stall by all means, but get some fit blokes too! ;)

Tried that. Guess what happened.
Unmanned stall.
Bad idea.

jimmysword

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2008, 10:12:29 am »
Does anyone have this to lend/upload/already shared on the web?  I had a quick look on UKnova but it wasn't there although I think it should be :)

I'd be happy to share it on the web if I had access to it I think it would be a good watch.  On the same topic does nayone know of any other Caving vids available?

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2008, 07:43:04 am »
I'm no expert but I always understood that the owner of a copyright has to prove that the alleged breaker of that copyright has caused them loss of money. If no-one is charged for watching the vid then I should imagine that it'd be difficult to prosecute you, as by definition there would be no loss to recover. Don't rely on this though as I'm not a legal type.

However . . . why do TV types always have to make caving look far, far more difficult than it really is? For example, take the Swildon's Sump 1 free dive. Next time you watch the film, set a stop watch going and time how long it "took" for Kate Humble to dive through. Then bear in mind that the sump is only 2 or 3 feet long.

However, on the whole, much of the film was pretty good although perhaps a long way from being "ultimate" caving. And I think that the two presenters did pretty well, even if they were carefully supervised. I know quite a few experienced cavers who hesitate to go on a Titan trip and I well remember free diving Swildons 1 myself as a teenager, as my first ever sump - it took a lot of commitment. So I think they did extremely well. The very last scene was a disappointment though (in terms of caving PR).

Offline Christian_Chourot

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Re: BBC Ultimate Caving
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2008, 04:56:40 pm »
If anyone else is interested in getting the program then PM me and I'll sort you out.

 

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