Brexit...

[Fishes]

Dominic Raab suggested this morning that businesses should take a 10 year view of our new trading relationship with the EU.

Try telling that one to your bank or shareholders. The idiots who have lead the country by the nose into Brexit really don't seem to have a clue about business and don't care about those who will lose their jobs, their businesses or even their homes.

They can wave their union flags and brag about "taking back control" of a country they have broken with pride though.

 

[JoshW]

Dominic Raab suggested this morning that businesses should take a 10 year view of our new trading relationship with the EU.

Try telling that one to your bank or shareholders. The idiots who have lead the country by the nose into Brexit really don't seem to have a clue about business and don't care about those who will lose their jobs, their businesses or even their homes.

They can wave their union flags and brag about "taking back control" of a country they have broken with pride though.

yeah but come on, think positive, even you remoaners haven't stopped us taking are country back. something something fishing something..

 

[Fishes]

yeah but come on, think positive, even you remoaners haven't stopped us taking are country back. something something fishing something..

I have been trying to find something positive about brexit for the last four years. I'm still looking though.

 

[Oceanrower]

Dominic Raab suggested this morning that businesses should take a 10 year view of our new trading relationship with the EU.

Try telling that one to your bank or shareholders. The idiots who have lead the country by the nose into Brexit really don't seem to have a clue about business and don't care about those who will lose their jobs, their businesses or even their homes.

They can wave their union flags and brag about "taking back control" of a country they have broken with pride though.

yeah but come on, think positive, even you remoaners haven't stopped us taking are country back. something something fishing something..

The entire fishing industry turns over less than Harrods.

Obviously it was well worth possibly breaking up the United Kingdom for the turnover of one department store...

 

[mikem]

Without the store of riches: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_to_Pimlico

 

[Pitlamp]

The idiots who have lead the country by the nose into Brexit really don't seem to have a clue about business and don't care about those who will lose their jobs, their businesses or even their homes.

Yes - and many of us haven't forgotten that telling "F*** business" comment by our leader some time ago.

Don't get me wrong; I believe in credit where it's due - and I'm one of those who is rather more understanding of Johnson's handling of the coronavirus pandemic than some forum users. But I don't like politicians deliberately trying to mislead us, which seems to have been a feature of their Brexit "victory". Remember the slogan on the Boris bus?

 

[Robert Scott]

I feel that one of the questions that should have been asked of the promoters of Brexit is ?What are the benefits of leaving the European Union and how will I be better off??

So dear Brexit promoter, no waffle about ?freedom? and ?Sovereignty?,  just hard measurable facts, thank you.

Please give your answers to the following questions, which in my opinion are measures of the UK?s success in a post-Brexit world.

1. According to World Bank figures (2019), the UK was ranked for GDP as 6th in the world. So what will the UK ranking be in 2024? What will the UK ranking be in 2029?

2. Thinking of the British worker. In 2017, the Office of National Statistics estimated that 2.9% of the employed workforce had zero hour contracts. So in 2024, what percentage of the employed workforce will have a zero hour contract? And again, what percentage in 2029?

3. Again thinking of the British worker. In 2019, the median pay of FTSE 100 CEOs (?3.61 million) was 119 times greater than the median earnings of a full time worker (?30,353). So in 2024, will that ratio be greater or smaller? And again, greater or smaller in 2029?

4. As a promoter of making our own choices, you will have recognised that an educated & skilled workforce is necessary to succeed compared to global powers such as China and the USA. In 2016, 44% of the UK working age population had a qualification at NQF level 4 or above. Now free from Brussels, we must surely be able to improve on that.  So in 2024, what percentage of the UK working age population will have a qualification at NQF level 4 or above? And again, what percentage in 2029?

5. Following Brexit, we were assured that the UK will become more prosperous; this should reduce the tax burden on the working population. In 2019, the take-home pay of an average single UK worker, after tax and benefits, was 76.7% of their gross wage (Source ? OECD). So in 2024, what will be the percentage take-home pay of the average UK single worker? And again, what percentage in 2029?

So dear Brexiteeer, 10 simple figures to produce, but can you?, but dare you?

 

[Fjell]

The EU suffers from overreach. It?s not working. It used to work, a couple of decades ago. Now they have internal non-alignment. 27 countries is too many when put under stress (2008 and now) for the level of integration they are after. It would be better to be looser. The UK leaving has made things worse. That doesn?t mean it?s better for the UK, but I doubt it will make a great deal of difference in the end.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/14/europe/europe-crises-intl-analysis/index.html

 

[ChrisJC]

Please give your answers to the following questions, which in my opinion are measures of the UK?s success in a post-Brexit world.

1. According to World Bank figures (2019), the UK was ranked for GDP as 6th in the world. So what will the UK ranking be in 2024? What will the UK ranking be in 2029?

2. Thinking of the British worker. In 2017, the Office of National Statistics estimated that 2.9% of the employed workforce had zero hour contracts. So in 2024, what percentage of the employed workforce will have a zero hour contract? And again, what percentage in 2029?

3. Again thinking of the British worker. In 2019, the median pay of FTSE 100 CEOs (?3.61 million) was 119 times greater than the median earnings of a full time worker (?30,353). So in 2024, will that ratio be greater or smaller? And again, greater or smaller in 2029?

4. As a promoter of making our own choices, you will have recognised that an educated & skilled workforce is necessary to succeed compared to global powers such as China and the USA. In 2016, 44% of the UK working age population had a qualification at NQF level 4 or above. Now free from Brussels, we must surely be able to improve on that.  So in 2024, what percentage of the UK working age population will have a qualification at NQF level 4 or above? And again, what percentage in 2029?

5. Following Brexit, we were assured that the UK will become more prosperous; this should reduce the tax burden on the working population. In 2019, the take-home pay of an average single UK worker, after tax and benefits, was 76.7% of their gross wage (Source ? OECD). So in 2024, what will be the percentage take-home pay of the average UK single worker? And again, what percentage in 2029?

Good questions.

Can we wait until 2029 and see what has happened?

Chris.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Never mind that. We've got Boris Burrow to distract us for the next 10 years at least.

 

[Robert Scott]

Please give your answers to the following questions, which in my opinion are measures of the UK?s success in a post-Brexit world.

1. According to World Bank figures (2019), the UK was ranked for GDP as 6th in the world. So what will the UK ranking be in 2024? What will the UK ranking be in 2029?

2. Thinking of the British worker. In 2017, the Office of National Statistics estimated that 2.9% of the employed workforce had zero hour contracts. So in 2024, what percentage of the employed workforce will have a zero hour contract? And again, what percentage in 2029?

3. Again thinking of the British worker. In 2019, the median pay of FTSE 100 CEOs (?3.61 million) was 119 times greater than the median earnings of a full time worker (?30,353). So in 2024, will that ratio be greater or smaller? And again, greater or smaller in 2029?

4. As a promoter of making our own choices, you will have recognised that an educated & skilled workforce is necessary to succeed compared to global powers such as China and the USA. In 2016, 44% of the UK working age population had a qualification at NQF level 4 or above. Now free from Brussels, we must surely be able to improve on that.  So in 2024, what percentage of the UK working age population will have a qualification at NQF level 4 or above? And again, what percentage in 2029?

5. Following Brexit, we were assured that the UK will become more prosperous; this should reduce the tax burden on the working population. In 2019, the take-home pay of an average single UK worker, after tax and benefits, was 76.7% of their gross wage (Source ? OECD). So in 2024, what will be the percentage take-home pay of the average UK single worker? And again, what percentage in 2029?

Good questions.

Can we wait until 2029 and see what has happened?

Chris.

No "we" can't wait - I want YOUR predictions on what GOOD will look like.
I'm tired of your "it will be better".
Answer the questions.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Did we not get a directive to not talk about Brexit, Trump, BLM ? Ah, maybe that was a sub-forum??

 

[Oceanrower]

Seeing as the thread is titled ?Brexit? it?d be a bit tricky not to talk about it.

Well, we could but it?d be a bloody short thread...

 

[mikem]

It is a breakaway from covid ...

The questions are impossible to answer.

 

[PeteHall]

The questions are impossible to answer.

Correct, Brexit or no Brexit. Covid or no Covid.

Various predictions can be made based on various assumptions, but there is no saying that any of those predictions will be in any way reflected in reality. Everyone has an axe to grind and their predictions will reflect that, whatever side of the debate they are on.

What is more useful than checking the horoscopes is probably pulling together to ensure all those stats are as good as possible by 2029. A successful post-Brexit Britsin won't just be good for Brexiteers, it will be good for everyone. Likewise an unsuccessful post-Brexit Britain will be bad for everyone, even if the remainers take some sick pleasure in being proved right.

The vote is finished, the 'deal' is done, so let's get on and make the most of the hand we've been dealt, rather than bickering about why people voted which way. It's a free democratic country, people can and do vote however they like. It's a secret ballot for a reason, you vote how you want and nobody can challenge that.

More people got off their arse to vote than ever have before, so if you believe in democracy, accept the result and get on with life.

People have fought tooth and nail for a democracy that represents everyone equally. The suggestion by some that people on the other side don't deserve a vote because they are perceived to be "less well informed" is an absolute affront to everything we have achieved.

We will never know for sure which result would have been better for the country, but we can work to ensure that we do the best we can with the result we have.

 

[Fulk]

It's a secret ballot for a reason

Just as an aside, the last few times that I have voted I seem to recall that the ?tellers? (or whatever they are called) checked off my number on a list and noted down the number on my voting slip; I can?t remember the exact sequence, but I remember thinking that in theory somebody could go rooting through the voting slips and match up my slip with my name ? so in theory, they were not secret ballots. When I pointed this out to them, they said, ?Do you really think that anybody?s going to go rooting through thousands of voting slips to find out how individuals voted??, so I replied that that was not the point ? in theory, it could be done and our much-vaunted secret ballot is yet another lie foisted upon us.

 

[Pitlamp]

Completely agree with Pete that democracy must be paramount. 

However, let's not pretend everything's fine. Almost half the nation didn't want this and still don't. That's why the Brexiteers were adamant we should be denied a second vote at all costs, as the true nature of what we were about to let ourselves in for became increasingly apparent. They knew they could just as easily have lost. Democracy?

I voted remain - and I promise you I will get no pleasure at all from pointing out what a mistake Brexit is, a few years down the line. But I think it's important that people do flag up problems, perhaps after a few years have elapsed, in the interests of allowing democracy to decide to go back in.

I agree we ought to give Brexit chance to prove us remainers were wrong. Like any rational person, I'll change my mind if the evidence is there. Answers to Robert Scott's questions might go some way to helping me change my mind.

 

[aardgoose]

People have fought tooth and nail for a democracy that represents everyone equally.

They failed, it doesn't. Too many safe seats. And in the referendum, many were deliberately disenfranchised.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

A more immediate barometer than the 10 year metrics will be what happens in Northern Ireland over the next 12 months.

 

[Pitlamp]

A more immediate barometer than the 10 year metrics will be what happens in Northern Ireland over the next 12 months.

. . .  and whether the Scottish nationalists get their way, despite the promise that a disruptive Scottish referendum would be a "once in a generation" event.