Calf Holes and surrounding area

[MPC-Robin]

We had a trip down Calf Holes yesterday, following the latest CNCC update we parked at Low Birkwith Farm.

We spoke to the farmer there who was very friendly and said we used to park up at High Birkwith, his comments were that he got on with the High Birkwith farmer okay ( farmer to farmer ) but the High Birkwith farmer didn't like people !

Once we'd been through Calf Holes and de-rigged, we walked back down to the old parking area and followed the footpath left ( towards Birkwith ). At this point a flock of sheep was being driven up the hill from High Birkwith towards the gate, while most of us kept back, one offered to open the gate, the sheep were driven through and the farmer passed on a quad, not saying anything.

Once the gate was shut we were watching the sheep being driven by the dogs up the track and another farm vehicle came down the hill, they spoke to the farmer on the quad briefly and headed down, we opened the gate for this vehicle too, but they got out to close it.

The farm vehicle stopped and we were asked where we were going, we said we were just going to have a look at Birkwith, we were told in no uncertain terms we couldn't go in there, nobody goes there anymore and the stile has been removed. They said we could go in Calf Holes but that was all.

So we abandoned any further caving and headed back to the cars.

I can't verify if the stile to Birkwith has been removed but it's worth knowing in advance as any attempted access would require climbing over walls.

Calf Hole is still a great easy trip, although made slightly harder as I couldn't remember the way through as it's a while since I've been !

 

[andrewmcleod]

The CNCC page for Birkwith cave says 'Birkwith Cave is on non-access land owned by Paul Hallam at High Birkwith Farm.'

but it also has:
'This cave is on access land.'

which is presumably an error?

 

[Benfool]

yep not on access land

 

[CNCC]

Yes, this was an error and has been corrected now.

Following the recent clarification of the situation at High Birkwith...

Response to High Birkwith access situation

CNCC response to High Birkwith access issues, November 2022.

cncc.org.uk

... we spent some time updating the CNCC website details and the associated cave descriptions and access info to reflect this. Unfortunately, it looks like Birkwith Cave was accidently set to 'Access Land' in error during those changes. Well spotted.

The situation with regards to access here is difficult. It is no surprise that you were denied access to Birkwith Cave. However, it is encouraging that the farmer accepted your access to Calf Holes. After some considerable research we identified that Calf Holes is actually not on High Birkwith Farm land, and is owned by a much more caver-friendly landowner further down the valley (no permission needed, and approached entirely on public rights of way). However, what we were not sure of is whether the High Birkwith landowner would be confrontational about Calf Holes regardless.

Great to know this isn't the case, and Calf Holes access remains fine.

 

[Badlad]

Good to hear your story so thanks for posting. It is difficult to say who exactly you spoke to but that would be the expected response from the High Birkwith landowner. It is important that we all remain courteous and comply with the request of the farmer if challenged in this way. However, it is also important that cavers show an interest in continuing the access to all these caves. So well done. This is an ongoing issue which won't be resolved by keeping away. There is also a concern that this farmer is buying up further land and this in turn might effect more caves in the area.

I attended a meeting of the Cave & Crag Advisory Group last week which is a sub group of the Yorkshire Dales LAF. Be assured that this issue was at the heart of the agenda and a number of folk are engaged with finding a solution. Reports will be forthcoming on the outcome of this meeting and follow up work in due course. CNCC will keep you posted and I may write some more detail myself once we have digested the next outcomes.

Keep on caving!

 

[Stevie]

Just been notified that the Three Peaks Fell race next weekend has to alter the route due to ‘ongoing ground conditions’ at ‘the request of the landowner’.
It now adds about 1k to avoid - you guessed it - Birkwith.
I’m not one to kick up a stink and I’m adding one and one with no proof but if it’s the same landowner that we are having problems with it may be more serious and potentially more problematic than first thought.

 

[Badlad]

The threat to other visitor activities, permissive routes, etc is well known. It is simply a problem that there is very little anyone can do much about. Perhaps one day some of the £2-300K public money this farmer gets each year will eventually be directly related to public access. Until then, unless it is a right, this can happen.

 

[Pitlamp]

Sad news Stevie; this race meeting has been held since 1954; Bert Bradshaw (co-discoverer of Easter Grotto) competed in the earliest events and I believe he came in second on one occasion. I can't disagree with Badlad's assesment immediately above.

The altered route messes up the history of course records as well. What an awful shame.

 

[mikem]

But you'll have to wait until next year to find out if it is just due to ground conditions...

 

[moorfurlong]

We had a trip down Calf Holes yesterday, following the latest CNCC update we parked at Low Birkwith Farm.

We spoke to the farmer there who was very friendly and said we used to park up at High Birkwith, his comments were that he got on with the High Birkwith farmer okay ( farmer to farmer ) but the High Birkwith farmer didn't like people !

Once we'd been through Calf Holes and de-rigged, we walked back down to the old parking area and followed the footpath left ( towards Birkwith ). At this point a flock of sheep was being driven up the hill from High Birkwith towards the gate, while most of us kept back, one offered to open the gate, the sheep were driven through and the farmer passed on a quad, not saying anything.

Once the gate was shut we were watching the sheep being driven by the dogs up the track and another farm vehicle came down the hill, they spoke to the farmer on the quad briefly and headed down, we opened the gate for this vehicle too, but they got out to close it.

The farm vehicle stopped and we were asked where we were going, we said we were just going to have a look at Birkwith, we were told in no uncertain terms we couldn't go in there, nobody goes there anymore and the stile has been removed. They said we could go in Calf Holes but that was all.

So we abandoned any further caving and headed back to the cars.

I can't verify if the stile to Birkwith has been removed but it's worth knowing in advance as any attempted access would require climbing over walls.

Calf Hole is still a great easy trip, although made slightly harder as I couldn't remember the way through as it's a while since I've been !

Would it be possilbe to drive a min i bus to low B Farm to park

 

[moorfurlong]

Would it be possilbe to drive a min i bus to low B Farm to park

 

[snebbit]

Would it be possilbe to drive a min i bus to low B Farm to park

I've been a passenger in a van up there and it was bumpy but doable. A 2mph job from memory