Dead birds filmed being thrown into a shaft
- Thread starter royfellows
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Chocolate fireguard
Active member
I'm struggling to think of a form of hunting I would describe as sporting.
pwhole
Well-known member
I was once attacked by a pack of four semi-feral dogs in the subway roundabout known as 'Cardboard City' outside Waterloo Station, and although I had two hanging off my brand-new (Dickies canvas) jacket, I managed to beat the crap out of three of them and the fourth wisely ran away, like a Keystone Cops movie. I'm not sure which I found most satisfying move - flinging the one hanging off my back over my head into the subway wall, or the karate-kick under the jaw of a charging one that gave him a back-somersault and knocked him out. Probably the most co-ordinated I've ever been. Needless to say my jacket was trashed where they were biting, but I still have it as a souvenir , as it saved my ass that day. I told a policeman in the station and he said there wasn't much he could do unless I could identify each dog - and then deal with the riot that would ensue. But he said 'Don't worry, all this lot will be gone in a month' - and they were.
So it wasn't hunting really, but self-defence, and it definitely wasn't sporting on their part
So it wasn't hunting really, but self-defence, and it definitely wasn't sporting on their part
Speleofish
Active member
In my previous village in Oxfordshire, we were plagued by many hare coursers. These included organised criminals from London and Birmingham who beat up several concerned locals and threatened many of us with Hollywood levels of violence (to us specifically and our families and houses more generally). The police weren't very helpful.... If you wish to go hare coursing, all you need to do is (1) pick a large field with several hares and more than one way out for a vehicle, (2) turn up with a couple of 4x4s and more than one dog (so you can bet on the outcome). The combination of secrecy and simplicity makes it difficult for the antis to organise themselves effectively. Not to mention the very real threat of serious harm if you were to object.
Protesting against fox-hunting is a much more genteel occupation. It's easy to find out where the hunt is starting from and where they hope to go. Those involved are often dressed in bright colours, make loud braying noises and aren't particularly covert. Horses and horse boxes are conspicuous. The (pro) hunt followers usually include a number of muscular individuals wearing paramilitary clothing who like to work up an appetite for lunch by beating up a vegan. However, mostly, it's no worse than (and possibly a substitute for) a Saturday afternoon's rugby.
I don't have a problem with shooting or hunting if you eat what you kill (and minimise the distress you cause to the prey). Similarly, shooting to control the numbers of wild animals (eg wild deer which have no natural predators in the UK) is probably the only way to stop numbers getting further out of control. Both of these could be described as ethical activities, even if the participants enjoy the process.
However, if the way in which you hunt is modified to maximise the hunters' enjoyment at the expense of the prey (driven shoots, hare-coursing, fox-hunting), and even more if the prey are bred specifically to be slaughtered (any game birds, especially pheasant, partridge and grouse), I think there's a big ethical issue.
Protesting against fox-hunting is a much more genteel occupation. It's easy to find out where the hunt is starting from and where they hope to go. Those involved are often dressed in bright colours, make loud braying noises and aren't particularly covert. Horses and horse boxes are conspicuous. The (pro) hunt followers usually include a number of muscular individuals wearing paramilitary clothing who like to work up an appetite for lunch by beating up a vegan. However, mostly, it's no worse than (and possibly a substitute for) a Saturday afternoon's rugby.
I don't have a problem with shooting or hunting if you eat what you kill (and minimise the distress you cause to the prey). Similarly, shooting to control the numbers of wild animals (eg wild deer which have no natural predators in the UK) is probably the only way to stop numbers getting further out of control. Both of these could be described as ethical activities, even if the participants enjoy the process.
However, if the way in which you hunt is modified to maximise the hunters' enjoyment at the expense of the prey (driven shoots, hare-coursing, fox-hunting), and even more if the prey are bred specifically to be slaughtered (any game birds, especially pheasant, partridge and grouse), I think there's a big ethical issue.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
I think a fox 'drag' hunt would be a bit more visible - or audible. If the Eryri Hunt are out and about, you know about it from several miles away with the baying of the hounds.
Hare coursers don't have a legal 'drag hunting' camoflague (as far as I know), so presumably keep their activities a bit more clandestine. They do though, apparantly livestream on the 'dark web' for gambling purposes to those parts of the world who aren't as squeamish as the British at killing animals for sport.
Hare coursers don't have a legal 'drag hunting' camoflague (as far as I know), so presumably keep their activities a bit more clandestine. They do though, apparantly livestream on the 'dark web' for gambling purposes to those parts of the world who aren't as squeamish as the British at killing animals for sport.
Oceanrower
Active member
Chocolate fireguard said:
My first job, between school and college, was working for a falconer. I developed a lifelong love of rabbit.
Make of that what you will. I apologise if I fail to meet your high standards.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
I think squeamish was apt:
OED:
easily upset, or made to feel sick by unpleasant sights or situations, especially when the sight of blood is involved
not wanting to do something that might be considered dishonest or wrong
OED:
easily upset, or made to feel sick by unpleasant sights or situations, especially when the sight of blood is involved
not wanting to do something that might be considered dishonest or wrong
Chocolate fireguard
Active member
Hey, don't beat yourself up! Nobody's perfect.Oceanrower said:
The important thing is your obvious willingness to do better in future.
This will help.
https://thegreenloot.com/going-vegan-guide-beginners/
Good luck with it and let us know how you get on.
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
Saw my mum on Christmas Eve, to my wife's horror (long term veggie) she'd cooked rabbit pie (and a veggie option). Very tasty. Made me think how dated that Chas and Dave lyric is " she's got more rabbit than Sainsbury's". The kids don't understand that.
"Yes, it is true that Sainsburys used to stock rabbit, and were famous for it, but it had fallen out of fashion, partly because people thought that rabbits were too cute to eat, but also because the time required to prepare a rabbit made it less economical than in the old days."
In monetary terms, pheasant are also not worth processing into the food chain, as so many are available at the same time, they can't get a worthwhile price (& they have to be refrigerated within a very limited time frame, that isn't practical at many places).
In monetary terms, pheasant are also not worth processing into the food chain, as so many are available at the same time, they can't get a worthwhile price (& they have to be refrigerated within a very limited time frame, that isn't practical at many places).
Roger W
Well-known member
mikem said:
A few years ago we were in a big supermarket in Shenzhen and looking at what was to offer on the meat counter.
There were some halves of animals hanging up over the counter with the prepacked meat. My wife said "What's that one? Is it a pig?"
"No," I said. "Its got paws."
PeteHall
Moderator
A friend shoots rabbits for one of the local farmers. They are usually small and the prep takes a while, but it is worth it.
I've got a farm shop a mile away and another a mile from work. Both sell rabbit at a very reasonable price. They are farmed, so much bigger than the wild ones and you don't have to skin/gut them, so a wider market appeal I guess, but less flavour.
I used to shoot pheasant as a kid (we didn't get rabbits around us), either stalking them through the woods (with permission), which was definitely a fun way to pass a Saturday, but not always very productive, or otherwise from the window of the farmer's Land Rover around the sheep feeders. That was much less fun, but was pretty much guaranteed to sort dinner for his family and ours.
Pocket money was for shooting rats. Does that count as a blood sport, or just vermin control?
I've got a farm shop a mile away and another a mile from work. Both sell rabbit at a very reasonable price. They are farmed, so much bigger than the wild ones and you don't have to skin/gut them, so a wider market appeal I guess, but less flavour.
I used to shoot pheasant as a kid (we didn't get rabbits around us), either stalking them through the woods (with permission), which was definitely a fun way to pass a Saturday, but not always very productive, or otherwise from the window of the farmer's Land Rover around the sheep feeders. That was much less fun, but was pretty much guaranteed to sort dinner for his family and ours.
Pocket money was for shooting rats. Does that count as a blood sport, or just vermin control?
