Decline in Caver Numbers

[cap n chris]

Partly this is because there is no system to channel uni cavers into mainstream clubs

Go online, type in "caving clubs". Pick one. Contact them. See if they're any good. Join. Go caving.

 

[Andy Sparrow]

Partly this is because there is no system to channel uni cavers into mainstream clubs

Go online, type in "caving clubs". Pick one. Contact them. See if they're any good. Join. Go caving.

I did some SRT training for a very keen and capable chap whom I'm should would be an asset to any caving club. He told me he had emailed 5 major caving clubs to enquire about membership and that 3 had completely failed to respond.

 

[cap n chris]

... so they failed the "See if they're any good" test.

BTW this site is very slow on my computer at the moment compared to other sites. Is it just me?

 

[graham]

Partly this is because there is no system to channel uni cavers into mainstream clubs

Go online, type in "caving clubs". Pick one. Contact them. See if they're any good. Join. Go caving.

I did some SRT training for a very keen and capable chap whom I'm should would be an asset to any caving club. He told me he had emailed 5 major caving clubs to enquire about membership and that 3 had completely failed to respond.

That's 'cos they are clubs not businesses & are not as efficient as they might be. That's life.

 

[Chris J]

Its interesting that this debate should kick-off now, since only last weekend at our committee meeting we were discussing how to attract younger members. We decided we should do as proposed and adopt-a-uni-caving-club. Some wag suggested we should adopt Bristol as it is our nearest University.

Idea's progressed onto a Wessex open day with training, trip leaders and barbeque etc. laid on. No date yet, but watch this space ...

Well it is a strange coincidence that you were talking about it at the same time I was working on a document from CHECC to send to all the uni clubs and regular clubs about the benefits of building a closer realtionship between them. It was going to be part of the BCA youth and development scheme for later in the year but I think now is a better time to get it sent out.

Also Andy - the whole point is that people often move away from uni when they finish. This is why they stop caving with their uni club. But if they join a regular club then they are more likely to keep caving (new people, projects, being involved with something, more meets and someone always around when they want to cave, everyone in the same boat - travelling from different places etc..). Then the regular club they join becomes a meeting point for ex-uni members and new uni cavers.

 

[AndyF]

... so they failed the "See if they're any good" test.

BTW this site is very slow on my computer at the moment compared to other sites. Is it just me?

No, the whole Internet is screwed up this afternoon, a big router bank in Telehouse has probably gone t*ts up. We are getting half a second pings to most servers

 

[AndyF]

Partly this is because there is no system to channel uni cavers into mainstream clubs

Go online, type in "caving clubs". Pick one. Contact them. See if they're any good. Join. Go caving.

I did some SRT training for a very keen and capable chap whom I'm should would be an asset to any caving club. He told me he had emailed 5 major caving clubs to enquire about membership and that 3 had completely failed to respond.

Did he try the telephone and try to talk to a real person. E-mail is too fire-and-forget sometimes....

 

[AndyF]

I just can't believe that anyone leaving university who wants to continue caving can't manage to finance a copy of Decent and phone one of the clubs up in the list at the back.

I don't really think non-uni cubs need to go hunting for lost and bewildered ex-uni cavers. Anyone with an ounce of gumption will figure out how to go caving if they want to...

 

[cap n chris]

Hmmm, this topic seems to be polarising a bit. Mind you, it's all good debating stuff.

AndyF and I seem to be like-minded.

The "uni club cosying up with mainstream club" seems like an OK idea and could work on localised basis (possibly) but once someone leaves uni I imagine there is no guarantee they will remain in the same area since work opportunities will take them all over the place. So establishing a link with a uni/local club isn't a catch-all solution.

The other "problem" is that a caving region as cosy as Mendip has A LOT of clubs in a small area and a Uni teaming up with just one club might create a few raised eyebrows and division. i.e. a Uni joining up with Wessex might subsequently find access to caves controlled by other clubs is denied to them. Another uni might then elect to team up with a different Mendip club and then have uni-versus-uni competition. A uni might say "We've worked with you guys for a year, now we're going to team up with a different Mendip club `cos they've made us a better offer".... unlikely, yep.

Anyway. I don't suppose it has to be one club doing the adopting of a single uni club. The whole of Mendip could "adopt" every uni club in Great Britain, I suppose - at least this would be fair and equitable.

I think there is a lot of good behind the idea of University clubs, CHECC, CSCC, BCA, Mendip Clubs all teaming up and making caving happen. My personal feeling is that if there is a vibrant "can-do" attitude then this in itself will attract more people since it is a fundamental element of human nature to want to be "in with the in crowd". If there is a critical mass of active caving this will atttract more people. Presently the problem seems to be a dwindling away of whatever critical mass there is until the whole thing is just a bit of a limp lettuce.

Am I mixing my metaphors again. Probably.

Anyway, in summary. Yes let's see a link between Uni and mainstream caving clubs but don't limit it to one uni club and one Mendip club. Perhaps clubs could have regular calendar events (monthly?) say on a Saturday where uni cavers join up with club cavers for... hmm, a caving trip. I like Les W's suggestion and I'm sure this has plenty of mileage.

I reckon what it'll boil down to is this... which club actually makes it happen... if you create a supply, the demand will follow. If there's an event on Mendip (or elsewhere) catering for uni cavers I'm sure they'll turn up if you make it easy/attractive enough for them.

I reckon you might just have a bit of a winner on your hands.

 

[Stu]

Yeah, the link between uni and established clubs is definatley an issue. I've been at uni for 5 years and of the people i've known to leave who still go caving (about 10) only 1 has joined a club and goes regularly!

So, anyone want to adopt newcastle?

tt.

You're practically resident at The School, of course we'll adopt you!!

 

[rich]

I just can't believe that anyone leaving university who wants to continue caving can't manage to finance a copy of Decent and phone one of the clubs up in the list at the back.

I don't really think non-uni cubs need to go hunting for lost and bewildered ex-uni cavers. Anyone with an ounce of gumption will figure out how to go caving if they want to...

They could do but apparently they don't!

There's no obligation on clubs to make things easy for people to join of course but many big clubs with a dwindling and aging membership seem puzzled as to why people aren't joining. I find this comical.

 

[rich]

The "uni club cosying up with mainstream club" seems like an OK idea and could work on localised basis (possibly) but once someone leaves uni I imagine there is no guarantee they will remain in the same area since work opportunities will take them all over the place. So establishing a link with a uni/local club isn't a catch-all solution.

In my experience there are an awful lot of cavers who cave with a club that is miles away from where they live, at least as long as the club is active in their nearest caving region.

The other "problem" is that a caving region as cosy as Mendip has A LOT of clubs in a small area and a Uni teaming up with just one club might create a few raised eyebrows and division.

Then the other clubs should have offered first.

i.e. a Uni joining up with Wessex might subsequently find access to caves controlled by other clubs is denied to them.

That seems far-fetched to me!

Anyway. I don't suppose it has to be one club doing the adopting of a single uni club. The whole of Mendip could "adopt" every uni club in Great Britain, I suppose - at least this would be fair and equitable.

I would imagine that the uni clubs would be adopted by the biggest clubs in their region that are keen to have them. A small club would have less to offer and less to gain.

Anyway, in summary. Yes let's see a link between Uni and mainstream caving clubs but don't limit it to one uni club and one Mendip club.

That would be a waste of time I think. Unless one club had a responsibility and interest in organising things it would soon be forgotten.

 

[paul]

I just can't believe that anyone leaving university who wants to continue caving can't manage to finance a copy of Decent and phone one of the clubs up in the list at the back.

I don't really think non-uni cubs need to go hunting for lost and bewildered ex-uni cavers. Anyone with an ounce of gumption will figure out how to go caving if they want to...

They could do but apparently they don't!

There's no obligation on clubs to make things easy for people to join of course but many big clubs with a dwindling and aging membership seem puzzled as to why people aren't joining. I find this comical.

My club is a large Peak-based one (Orpheus C.C.) and we do get fairly regular small numbers of people interested in caving turning up. Some live fairly local, some live some distance away. These are probably attracted to join the Orpheus as we gave a hut in the Peak Distirct.

There are no difficulties in joining - just pay for temporary membership for insurance purposes, go on 3 away trips and then fill in a simple form.

We don't have a regular meets list for beginners as such but arrange the trips and training on an ad-hoc basis as and when needed. If somebody contacts a club member and expreses a wish to go caving, then they will be given a suitable trip.

However, most of these new cavers are in their 30's and 40's. We very rarely get enquires from younger people.

There's nothing wrong with creating links with Uni Clubs (we often have groups from various Uni Clubs staying at our hut so if any of them wanted to join later after leaving Uni then surely they know about our Club's existence and that we are not all unwelcoming old farts!) and it would be probably a very good idea.

However, if somebody is motivated enough to want to go caving and decides that joining a club is the best option, they will surely find a club they would like to join and go about joining.

I was caving before going to Uni (many years ago...) with a small group of school friends and decded to join a club. I soon found out what clubs were around (from Descent and local Library) and eventually found one I wanted to join. I didn't wait until they found me.

So I tend to agree with Cap'n Chris and AndyF.

 

[cap n chris]

Rich (regular) made some good observations on my previous points, all of which I agree with.

However, thinking of the recent Planet Earth series and the comments heard like "I bet that TV series has made lots of people want to go caving", I'd like other people to try what I've just done.

Imagine you're a TV viewer and you'd like to find out more about caving. I've just typed "Lechuguilla" into google and hit the first site which came up, follow the links at the bottom to "cavers across the pond" (i.e. a link to UK caving, one hopes) and get the BCRA main page which is as useful as a chocolate teapot to a caving newcomer, scan the page and pick on British Caving Association as the next best thing and get their home page which is even less relevant to a newcomer to caving.

Am I missing something? - shouldn't there be a page SOMEWHERE on the internet which says something along the lines of "So you want to go caving?.... here's how to go about sorting things out....."? This page, if it exists, should be linked to any/all TV programmes which have a caving topic IMHO.

Surely this is a BCA topic?

 

[AndyF]

Well, I just tried "join caving club uk" in Google, it came up with loads of stuff... (we came 5th)

I also think there are more people not in clubs, just doing trips with a few friends. It's easier these days with cheaper gear and easy transport...

 

[cap n chris]

Yep! Please ignore my previous post `cos it's rubbish

My mistake was to type Lechuguilla (which of course no-one else can spell anyway) into Google; instead I should have typed "caving" which comes up with loads of good stuff for beginners.

I've been having a bad hair day. Those who know me will sympathise.

 

[cap n chris]

Re: uni clubs teaming up with Mendip clubs....

"University clubs should join their appropriate regional caving council and seek to form an association with a club or clubs local to each area they visit, to seek help and advice as necessary. This can often be done with clubs who can offer accommodation in their own hostels".

This is from an NCA publication Guidelines for University and College Caving Clubs dated 1996.

 

[Ouan]

"University clubs should join their appropriate regional caving council and seek to form an association with a club or clubs local to each area they visit, to seek help and advice as necessary. This can often be done with clubs who can offer accommodation in their own hostels".

Are there any nursing colleges out there who would like to be adopted by our club and stay in our hostel?

 

[Stu]

"University clubs should join their appropriate regional caving council and seek to form an association with a club or clubs local to each area they visit, to seek help and advice as necessary. This can often be done with clubs who can offer accommodation in their own hostels".

Are there any nursing colleges out there who would like to be adopted by our club and stay in our hostel?

Wouldn't bother, they're all sl*ts and probably not at all interested in caving!!!





OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! I see....

 

[Stu]

Are we concluding caving is in dire straits then?