Drill Review
- Thread starter maxf
- Start date
Chocolate fireguard
Active member
Yes. The gearbox noise is there but the low frequency stuff from the hammer isn't.
Both are there in Mattrees's video.
Both are there in Mattrees's video.
pwhole
Well-known member
It doesn't sound right to me either. And there's no visual indication of hammering at the drill point - it looks as though it's just rotational drilling with no hammer. I can only imagine that the hammer is oscillating, but isn't actually hitting the drive shaft, or whatever part it hits. So you can hear it, but it's not actually doing any hammering at all.
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
I don't know how important it is that the bit is well greased up?
Simon Wilson
New member
Why persist with it if it isn't working properly? Why not just return it?
Simon Wilson said:
I have already resigned to the fact that I won't use it caving (even if I did get a version that drilled limestone reasonably) and it has seen a fair amount of DIY use already for which it works well however it is the fact that it appears to be the same model as Mattrees's that has been used successfully underground that keeps niggling me as to why mine should be any different with no obvious fault. Plus I'm a persistent person, if somethings not working I usually take it apart and find out why.
If I did return I can imagine them testing it in something like my garage floor material rather than limestone and saying it works fine for which it does !
From the limited bolting I have done now I realise I prefer a heavier drill (3kg) that you only have to hold above your head for a short amount of time applying very little inward force to a the lighter drill (1.5kg) which take longer to drill and requires more pushing.
Simon Wilson
New member
I've returned a few things and usually they have been very happy to replace them. The manufacturers appear to want people to return things that are faulty.
My Makita is 8 years old, has done a lot of work and still works like new. It cost ?140 bare when I bought it. You can now get a bare one for ?120 if you shop around.
SamT is right. You should push only enough to compress the spring which engages the hammer action and no harder.
My Makita is 8 years old, has done a lot of work and still works like new. It cost ?140 bare when I bought it. You can now get a bare one for ?120 if you shop around.
SamT is right. You should push only enough to compress the spring which engages the hammer action and no harder.
heavypetal
New member
Bumping this thread as lots of mentions of drill bits and pictures of dodgy drill bits but no mention of the PGM standard which is relevant for any of us placing anchors. Most users of percussion drills with any form of quality bit will already recognise the logo but perhaps not appreciate the significance of it. I'd urge all persons placing anchors to ensure they're using PGM compliant bits, the difference between them all is quite something! https://en.pgm-online.org/
Alastair mentioned the quad fluted bits - the Hilti TE-CX range. These are obscenely good but at the higher end of the pricing spectrum. Don't knock them until you've tried them - even the most underpowered of drills will get a superb result from these bits. Otherwise, the only other decent bit in my opinion is the Milwaukee SDS Plus - also available from Toolstation like your VIS resin - and PGM stamped!
Afraid from a drill perspective it's the Hilti TE 6-A36 (04) with the 5.2 aH batteries every time for me! If you don't want to splash out ?1000 you can rent them for ?15 per month from your local branch and never have to worry about a drill again....... leave the toy drills at home for the shelving!
Alastair mentioned the quad fluted bits - the Hilti TE-CX range. These are obscenely good but at the higher end of the pricing spectrum. Don't knock them until you've tried them - even the most underpowered of drills will get a superb result from these bits. Otherwise, the only other decent bit in my opinion is the Milwaukee SDS Plus - also available from Toolstation like your VIS resin - and PGM stamped!
Afraid from a drill perspective it's the Hilti TE 6-A36 (04) with the 5.2 aH batteries every time for me! If you don't want to splash out ?1000 you can rent them for ?15 per month from your local branch and never have to worry about a drill again....... leave the toy drills at home for the shelving!
alastairgott
Well-known member
heavypetal said:
Heavy Petal, some very good points.
The Hilti TE 6-A36 (04) is an excellent choice for your use.
However some users of drills might wish to consider the weight of the lump of plastic and metal they're waving above their head. I know you've done enough bolt climbing to be more than familiar with the problem. Though it's exacerbated by a longer caving trip to get to the objective, The key is the balance between lightweight gear vs the power and performance you get out of it.
There has to be a trade off. I'm sure you could graph it and find out some sort of sweetspot. but what's the point, there's some good drills out there.
But I for one would not hulk a Hilti along for a bolt climb, but then I've never done it. I know you use the clipsticks(?) which gets you some extra height, but some would prefer to use a lighter drill to get the extra reach between bolts.
heavypetal
New member
The TE 6 -A36 sits at 3.7 kg which puts it in the same ball park as many of the other drills mentioned here, the Milwaukee HD18HX mentioned earlier is actually heavier and the Makita is only 200 gram lighter.. The sweet spot you mention is usually defined by impact force in joules and blows per minute. Frankly nothing really can come close to the Hilti for BPM but some almost come close for impact force. Remember, a more powerful unit such as the TE 6 gives you 2.5 J which means that you don't have to hold the drill over your head for as long and the size thing is a myth - I carry the TE 6 in the Warmbac Gournier 10 litre bag - and that's with a spare battery!
A lighter drill will never be an alternative to a Stickup when bolt climbing - we can get reliable average placements of around 1.2 to 1.4 meters between bolts which isn't so bad, but drill weight makes no odds. Ironically, with something like the TE 6 and two 5.2 aH 36 v batteries you can bolt for longer, faster and achieve more in a day. The extra few grams in body weight over the majority of popular caving drills is a small price to pay considering the higher output of the drill when used in anger!
I think the compromise is the 243 (good choice Phil!) which is still bonkers at 2.4 J, only 3.3 kg or of course, the Bosch GBH which is obviously a common caving drill. But whilst 300 grams lighter again, it's also got 30% less impact force, and 160% less battery capacity yet is the same size when packed away.. you pays your money you take your choice. I guess the issue is you can buy 5 of either of these instead of one Hilti! But anyway, my intention was only to reiterate the importance of PGM certified drill bits when placing anchors....
A lighter drill will never be an alternative to a Stickup when bolt climbing - we can get reliable average placements of around 1.2 to 1.4 meters between bolts which isn't so bad, but drill weight makes no odds. Ironically, with something like the TE 6 and two 5.2 aH 36 v batteries you can bolt for longer, faster and achieve more in a day. The extra few grams in body weight over the majority of popular caving drills is a small price to pay considering the higher output of the drill when used in anger!
I think the compromise is the 243 (good choice Phil!) which is still bonkers at 2.4 J, only 3.3 kg or of course, the Bosch GBH which is obviously a common caving drill. But whilst 300 grams lighter again, it's also got 30% less impact force, and 160% less battery capacity yet is the same size when packed away.. you pays your money you take your choice. I guess the issue is you can buy 5 of either of these instead of one Hilti! But anyway, my intention was only to reiterate the importance of PGM certified drill bits when placing anchors....
heavypetal
New member
maxf said:
Agreed these things are beasts and very compact design..!
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
maxf said:
Previously UKC favourite Makita DHR165 is lighter than both at 2.5kg but is very L shaped (297x253x79mm) and less powerful (1.3J). Still fun though
Edit - I'm not 100% sure about the weight on that (specifically whether it includes the battery or not) - Google has given me more than one result quoting 2.2kg.
alastairgott
Well-known member
heavypetal said:
Some also add to the Bulk by adding in a roll mat to provide protection from shock and add a Drybag to provide protection from water.
It does depend on where you're using it.
MarkS
Moderator
It's a case of horses for courses though. One day last summer I shared a ~70 m bolt climb using a Bosch GBH Li CP drill, which weighs about 1.7 kg (without battery) I think. We were drilling 8 mm holes, so had no need for 36 V, or several joules of impact force. I think we used 2 batteries in total, and I was certainly glad of its low weight (aside from the fact that we were several hundred metres underground and had to take the drill in and out).
Equally, for placing large diameter anchors somewhere accessible a chunky 36 V drill will fit the bill.
A bit of searching on this forum will locate some discussion about whether the impact force can be too high for certain diameter holes, which is another discussion
Equally, for placing large diameter anchors somewhere accessible a chunky 36 V drill will fit the bill.
A bit of searching on this forum will locate some discussion about whether the impact force can be too high for certain diameter holes, which is another discussion
pwhole
Well-known member
I've been using the Hilti quad bits for some time now, and have used the same 8mm for so many bolt-holes I've lost count, but it barely looks worn. I've got a separate one for capping, so keep it as 'clean' as possible. They do get pricey as the diameter goes up, but then they last so long it's a moot point really. Ironically I'm taking one in to work tomorrow, as the bits they give us for work are shit, and can't drill into brick. Oh, and I'm taking some Excalibur bolts in too, so save shearing off any more shit ones.
The Makita is also seeing plenty of service at work, using the chisel action to remove old cement from the back of coping stones. And it's hacked off plenty of super-tough calcite crystals in our dig too, so it's a pretty good bit of kit really.
The Makita is also seeing plenty of service at work, using the chisel action to remove old cement from the back of coping stones. And it's hacked off plenty of super-tough calcite crystals in our dig too, so it's a pretty good bit of kit really.
andrewmc said:maxf said:
Previously UKC favourite Makita DHR165 is lighter than both at 2.5kg but is very L shaped (297x253x79mm) and less powerful (1.3J). Still fun though
Edit - I'm not 100% sure about the weight on that (specifically whether it includes the battery or not) - Google has given me more than one result quoting 2.2kg.
2.2kg to 2.5kg dependent on battery size so both right ! (according to manual)
