Peter Burgess
New member
Done!
Equipment recommendations
- Thread starter Peter Burgess
- Start date
Done!
Peter Burgess
New member
Peter Burgess
New member
You must be referring to:
If a knot isn't tied correctly, then it isn't the knot it is supposed to be. The definition of how a particular knot is tied is surely well-established?
A
andymorgan
Guest
Surely using an SRT harness when somebody is life lined is not best practice, as an SRT harness is not designed for such purposes? As some mentioned earlier without a chest strap you can invert and fall out. A climbing harness is maybe better suited in such cases.
whitelackington
New member
I think my point was
who is goining to provide this shit?
Not a novice, so who?
who is goining to provide this shit?
Not a novice, so who?
jasonbirder
Member
I know this isn't the textbook answer and probably isn't what should be reccomended to complete novices...but surely the whole point of using a ladder on a short or isolated pitch is that you don't have to wear a harness and cart along full SRT kit...
Ladder, lifeline, italian hitch to belay (which does allow a speedy lower off)...and you're away.
You're only using the lifeline in case of anchor/ladder failure really aren't you in which case the climber would be lowered down quickly.
If you are all going to have harnesses & kit etc...then why not just rig a rope and save the bother of carrying the ladder (and more to the point the hassle of rolling it back up again after use)
I consider my self a "novice" so I guess my opinion is exactly that (an opinion) but interestingly enough I taook a fall ona ladder during my early days caving while belayed from a lamp belt (all my own fault) and while I was bruised...there was no harm done...so as long as you don't leave much slack when you are belaying then there isn't really a danger of damaging yourself permenantly with a fall.
Ladder, lifeline, italian hitch to belay (which does allow a speedy lower off)...and you're away.
You're only using the lifeline in case of anchor/ladder failure really aren't you in which case the climber would be lowered down quickly.
If you are all going to have harnesses & kit etc...then why not just rig a rope and save the bother of carrying the ladder (and more to the point the hassle of rolling it back up again after use)
I consider my self a "novice" so I guess my opinion is exactly that (an opinion) but interestingly enough I taook a fall ona ladder during my early days caving while belayed from a lamp belt (all my own fault) and while I was bruised...there was no harm done...so as long as you don't leave much slack when you are belaying then there isn't really a danger of damaging yourself permenantly with a fall.
Peter Burgess
New member
.
Peter Burgess
New member
Exactly. A seatbelt may prevent you from dying, but it won't necessarily prevent you from getting a whiplash injury.
Sh*t. I've done it again!
ttxela
New member
whitelackington said:
What I probably should have originally asked is that I am trying to equip myself and having got a helmet and light I was thinking a belt should probably be the next thing I buy as I have a waist mounted battery. I guess having got one and not having a harness this will be what I end up using to be lifelined if and when I need it.
I guess reading the above I'm probably happy with this. ? ?
I do intend learning SRT when time and money permit, but I guess until then I won't have a harness unless someone lends me one on the day.....
I suspect the real answer is that living in the Fens I should have taken up fishing instead
Peter Burgess
New member
Living in the Fens there won't be so many trees to practice in either.
gus horsley
New member
Peter Burgess said:Living in the Fens there won't be so many trees to practice in either.
There's a few pylons!
D
darkplaces
Guest
Your all wrong and I'm right, if you aggree with me your almost right.
Go and cut your ladders up now, they are dangerous. You wanna hang yourself in a belt be my guest it will all end in tears. Or if you want to be stranded at the bottom of a 'short' pitch having just landed after the ladder broke while your mates call cave rescue be my guest, because with just 'belay' belts they wont be effecting a rescue for the next few hours.
Go and cut your ladders up now, they are dangerous. You wanna hang yourself in a belt be my guest it will all end in tears. Or if you want to be stranded at the bottom of a 'short' pitch having just landed after the ladder broke while your mates call cave rescue be my guest, because with just 'belay' belts they wont be effecting a rescue for the next few hours.
Peter Burgess
New member
Well, what can I say? Anyone spotting Darkplaces on a ladder, or who has a photo of Darkplaces on a ladder, please post it here.
Darkplaces: You are hereafter forbidden from coming within 10 metres of a ladder, for your own safety.
Peter Burgess
New member
As has been pointed out to me, anyone reading this thread, who wants to go caving, is going to go away shaking his/her head, and probably look for something else to do, where the participants agree about how to do what they do. If we can't agree about how to get down a 20ft drop reasonably safely, then what hope is there?
paul
Moderator
jasonbirder said:
There's no need to have a full SRT kit just because you are wearing a harness! True - on relatively short pitches such as Garlands Pot in Giants Hole, Derbyshire it is probably fine to use a load-bearing belt rather than full harness.
My original point was to remind people that there was a possibilty that a caver would end up dangling on the lifeline should a fall occur and in those circumstances a harness, whether a "proper" harness or a "rigged" harness using a sling or whatever would be preferable.
Years ago before rock climbers started wearing harnesses (in the early 70's with the inroduction of the Whillans harness mainly) it was ususal to tie on around the waist. First just with the rope than later with a waist belt.
In order to prevent suffocation when left dangling from the rope after parting from the rock (yes - even while seconding "when there should be no shock-loading if belayed properly", not only after a lead fall), it was also common to practice flipping the legs upwards and nearly turining upside down so the middle of a sling could be placed on the rope and the legs inserted in order to take some of the weight on the thighs...
D
darkplaces
Guest
whoo hooPeter Burgess said:
I will sleep soundly tonight with that warm safe feeling.I have to admit I climbed an electron ladder a few years ago with my friend mole (RIP) only about 12ft but it was bleedin awkard and before I became a 'proper' underground person. er I ant a caver! no you cant force me!
Peter Burgess
New member
22nd century cave guide narrative.
"And here, as we pass in our virtual cyber-pod down the main stream way, we come to the top of the notorious 20 ft pitch. A 'ft' by the way, is a curious term of measurement, popular with the anglo-saxon descendants that once inhabited these parts. Look closely, and you will see a pile of human bones lined up in the bed of the stream. These are all that remains of a group of 'cavers'. These were humans who regularly entered the caves of this district. We are still puzzling over their motives, and there are many theories. The scientists who have done a quintessential spectral analysis of the bones have determined that they spent the best part of 12 weeks standing in the water arguing about how safe it was to lower themselves over the edge to reach the lower sections of the cave, which we shall see later. It appears that no agreement was reached, so a committee was established to discuss the matter further. These bones are the remains of that committee, and the meeting they convened is theoretically still in session. They seem to have died from Butcombe starvation."
"Later we shall pass a spot where the water disappears under a rock arch, which we believe used to be known as a 'sump'. A similar pile of bones has been discovered here..... "
"And here, as we pass in our virtual cyber-pod down the main stream way, we come to the top of the notorious 20 ft pitch. A 'ft' by the way, is a curious term of measurement, popular with the anglo-saxon descendants that once inhabited these parts. Look closely, and you will see a pile of human bones lined up in the bed of the stream. These are all that remains of a group of 'cavers'. These were humans who regularly entered the caves of this district. We are still puzzling over their motives, and there are many theories. The scientists who have done a quintessential spectral analysis of the bones have determined that they spent the best part of 12 weeks standing in the water arguing about how safe it was to lower themselves over the edge to reach the lower sections of the cave, which we shall see later. It appears that no agreement was reached, so a committee was established to discuss the matter further. These bones are the remains of that committee, and the meeting they convened is theoretically still in session. They seem to have died from Butcombe starvation."
"Later we shall pass a spot where the water disappears under a rock arch, which we believe used to be known as a 'sump'. A similar pile of bones has been discovered here..... "
To go back to the beginning and answer where this information came from, the strippable model was created by Mathias Willerup for the Willerup website. http://www.willerup.com/caving/ The chap shown is indeed Mathias. The model has been used on the BEC website for many months and is a good starting point to indicate what cavers wear. http://www.bec-cave.org.uk/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,65/
Clearly there will be loads of variations of what to wear and the sources for such gear. It would be a trivial matter to change the descriptions and have a link to another page on the site for each item and then go into it in more depth. However all this takes time and is pretty subjective anyway. Could be an ideal place to discuss the merits of Y strap helmets but I really couldn't guess who we could get to write the text for this?!?
Maybe, as you all so interested in what the properly kitted out caver should be wearing, you could each take a bit of time and write something for each individual item. Clearly this would have to include what the latest fashion is and this years colours are a must. Personally I like all my gear to be mud coloured.
There is also an ongoing dialog to publish a female version.
Clearly there will be loads of variations of what to wear and the sources for such gear. It would be a trivial matter to change the descriptions and have a link to another page on the site for each item and then go into it in more depth. However all this takes time and is pretty subjective anyway. Could be an ideal place to discuss the merits of Y strap helmets but I really couldn't guess who we could get to write the text for this?!?
Maybe, as you all so interested in what the properly kitted out caver should be wearing, you could each take a bit of time and write something for each individual item. Clearly this would have to include what the latest fashion is and this years colours are a must. Personally I like all my gear to be mud coloured.
There is also an ongoing dialog to publish a female version.
