My first SRT trip - P8 (Jackpot)

In mid-September I had joined a DCC "try caving" trip in Peak Cavern as my first "proper" caving trip - along the main streamway and a few side passages visiting most of the main easily accessible sumps. In mid-October a few members of the club had organised an SRT practice day in the quarry at Alderley. I'd never done this before and was somewhat nervous, but managed to do a couple of basic ascents and descents without killing myself before I had to leave for another commitment - so that gave me a bit of confidence.

And then a couple of weeks ago one member posted on the Facebook group asking whether there would be any interest for a midweek evening trip to P8 in Derbyshire - and it'll be using SRT. As it turned out, there would be 8 of us on this trip - 6 experienced cavers, myself, and another novice on his first SRT trip too. Not a bad turnout for a Thursday evening trip.

We arrived at the car park to kit up. The other novice was sent to pay the farmer whilst I made slight adjustments to my kit setup. When he returned and now that my croll was on the right way up - it was off, following the reflective markers to the entrance. By this point it had been quite dry for the past couple of months - although a bit of heavy rain overnight made sure that the entrance wasn't completely dry.

And so the group made it down the crabwalk-style passage - down a couple of longer descents - the largest of which is "Idiot's Leap" - and then ended up in a queue for the first pitch. As there was a bit of water coming down the pitch, it had been rigged as about a metre and a half drop to a re-belay and then from there a straight drop down to the bottom - but there was also an in-situ rope going straight down the pitch. Although I had watched a couple of good SRT demonstration videos on YouTube - as I had had to leave the SRT pratice day a bit early - it turned out this would be my first ever re-belay. Nothing like learning on the job!

The thing I found most encouraging is that all of the experienced cavers were more than willing to help us newbies - one waited for both of us at the top of the pitch to make sure we were going to get attached properly - and another was there making sure we got the rebelay right. And without too much drama, we'd made it to the bottom of the first pitch. First ever rebelay done! It was then decided that we'd opt for the higher route to what is apparently called the "2nd ladder pitch" after an old ladder that was removed a few years ago. So a climb up and then across a few large holes in the floor to a little window between two columns to the pitch head. This was rigged as a straight drop. It wasn't my smoothest descent, but made it safely to the bottom ok - and then it was off to explore the rest of the cave.

In the passage not too far ahead - there was a slight squeeze that - with full SRT kit on - it didn't seem to want to let me through - and climbing higher to try and get over it just had the Petzl stop pressing against somewhere that I really didn't want it to! After a bit of wriggling, I did make it through and into the Mud Hall.

Just beyond - there was a traverse over a vadose canyon with a stream - which is where I think I found myself most out of my comfort zone in the whole trip. But again a couple of experienced members of the group stuck with me and encouraged me along. And it wasn't too long before the passage opened up into a big chamber with nice flowstones all over the left hand side and we'd reached the first downstream sump.

From here we turned around and started to head out. Taking the stop off the D-ring made the squeeze that I struggled with the first time a lot easier - and before long we'd reached the 2nd ladder pitch again. It probably wasn't the quickest ever ascent but it seemed easy enough - and onwards to the next pitch.

One of the group altered the rope to start with a traverse then a slightly awkward attach for the ascent - but someone suggested I have a go at the in-situ rope up the waterfall instead. When cold water is falling on your helmet, it felt slightly like being waterboarded and I think I could easily have had a bit of a sense-of-humour failure at this point - but luckily before long I was high enough that the water was only falling around my legs and I'd made it back up to the top. The other novice had some fun and games with attaching himself on the new rigging, but eventually made it up ok too. From there it was only the matter of idiots leap - and another little ascent to contend with before we made it out back to surface.

At this point it sadly became obvious that we were likely to miss last orders in the Wanted by the time we returned to the car park - but a few of us found an open watering hole in Chapel before heading back.

So overall a good first SRT trip - it's not put me off just yet. Beforehand I was very apprehensive, but I surprised myself with how calm I felt whilst I was doing the SRT - given I hadn't gotten round to doing it underground before now. It was really reassuring to have lots of experienced group members to help us newbies out on the slightly more tricky bits.
 

Goydenman

Well-known member
Good report - well done glad it di not put you off. It gets easier as you practice and gets more enjoyable.
 

skippy

Active member
Just started reading this and realised it was the trip I led....Glad you enjoyed the trip...for what its worth, I thought you did great...and most importantly you listened to all the advise.
See you next time,
Glenn (Skippy).
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Nice report, and welcome to the fraternity! The great thing about SRT is that everything's usually right in front of your face, which helps with the 'don't look down' stresses. And anyway on the larger pitches, there's not much to see until you get there anyway. Darkness can be very reassuring sometimes.
 
skippy said:
Just started reading this and realised it was the trip I led....Glad you enjoyed the trip...for what its worth, I thought you did great...and most importantly you listened to all the advise.
See you next time,
Glenn (Skippy).

Yes Glenn - it was that trip - a couple of weeks ago. Thanks for organising it - it was a good fun trip.
 

ah147

New member
Good write up mate!

Careful...this caving larks addictive


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P8 was my first SRT cave trip. Glad you had fun! Well done to the others as well for leading so well and making you feel comfortable / helping etc.
 

david3392

Member
Really good read, the group  sounded like fun with a responsible attitude. P8 and Giant's Hole - 2 of the most varied trips in England within 5 mins of each other. Thanks.
 

bograt

Active member
I've said it before and I'll say it again, SRT in P8 is a joke, OK, Ab down, but ladder out, a 25' and a 15' are not worth the effort of rigging for SRT, Giants is similar until you get to Geology...
Swildons down to sump 1 is much the same, there is a 'break point' when SRT becomes preferable to ladder, I suggest it is 50', -- comments?

Having said that, - Good report -  (y) (y)
 

Fulk

Well-known member
My take on that is that if all members of a party are prepared to climb short ladders without a lifeline, and if they are all experienced cavers who know what they are doing and the (possible) consequences of a fall off a ladder, then yes, it's probably not worth faffing with SRT on short pitches. But as soon as you factor in lifelines, double lines etc then SRT wins hands down.

Please note ? I am not advocating the former practice, just saying IF ( a very big IF) that's what you do.

Actually, I can't be arsed with ladders anywhere, so even if I was merely going down Valley Entrance to Kingsdale Master Cave I'd still use SRT.
 

bograt

Active member
Ever heard of 'self lining?'

Would be interesting to compare ladder speed to SRT speed over various lengths?--
 

paul

Moderator
bograt said:
Ever heard of 'self lining?'

Not recommended - if the ladder belay breaks or the ladder breaks you will end up dangling without and easy means of getting back down or up.

We often use a ladder and lifeline on Garlands Pot in Giants if just doing the round trip and not descending Geology Pot as Garlands is very near the entrance and saves having to cart SRT kit around the rest of the cave.

If descending Geology, then we'll be using SRT so might as well do the same on Garlands.

Otherwise, it's SRT al the way.


Plus ladders are not cheap so I can see where cavers who do not already own one but usually have SRT kit are not likely to shell out ?100+ to buy a ladder just for the odd short pitch.
 

ALEXW

Member
If the object of the trip is to have a go at SRT then the benefits of laddering are totally irrelevant. It was a good, well written report and the poster obviously had a good time it would be a shame to burst his bubble by implying that he should not have used SRT. :( 
 

paul

Moderator
Absolutely agree. If anyone wishes to discuss the use of ladder/lifeline vs. SRT, then please start another thread in the appropriate Forum Section.
 

ah147

New member
I SRTed up P8 all the time after a few trips on ladders. Almost 100 trips in 18 months.

I did a few on ladders.

Ladders are slower.

You have to take ladders each time, one tacklesack.

If you're rigging each time, you have to take rope and SRT gear, wear the gear, one small tacklesack of rope.

The time lost in rigging and de-rigging is easily gained back in being able to split up and keep moving rather than not having to stay together to lifeline people and reset it, rig the ladder and lifeline and de-rig and coil it.

Easier to haul gear on SRT.




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skippy

Active member
Those familiar with P8 will know its probably one of the few places a caver who is new to SRT can negoitiate a hanging re belay in a 'real' enviroment safe in the knowledge an experienced caver can be stood on a ledge next to them offering advise/instruction if required.


 

cap n chris

Well-known member
bograt said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, SRT in P8 is a joke, OK, Ab down, but ladder out, a 25' and a 15' are not worth the effort of rigging for SRT

An experienced caver would find there is no more effort involved in rigging for SRT than in rigging for ladder and line; use of SRT requires less carrying of equipment (i.e. dispensing with the need to bring ladders). If you want to dispense with effort, therefore, the solution is to use SRT.
 

bograt

Active member
Cap'n Chris said:
bograt said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, SRT in P8 is a joke, OK, Ab down, but ladder out, a 25' and a 15' are not worth the effort of rigging for SRT

An experienced caver would find there is no more effort involved in rigging for SRT than in rigging for ladder and line; use of SRT requires less carrying of equipment (i.e. dispensing with the need to bring ladders). If you want to dispense with effort, therefore, the solution is to use SRT.

An experienced leader of novices would tell you that anyone knows how to climb a ladder, but a prussic requires more instruction---

SORRY mods, seems like I am responsible for a thread highjack-- still think the OP was good--- (y) (y)
 
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