New forum find

[AndyF]

Just been to visit a newly collapsed mine level at.... erhm.... a secret location..with SamT and his mate (sorry brain like a seive forgot his name) and Pete Dell from Keyhole.

Oh its a bit small....but was bigger inside....

Thats SamT in safe caving attire....

It appears to be an old and unrecorded Sough. Went for about 100ft in one direction. In the other needs digging.
And it was chocka full of very old bottles washed in from an Edwardian tip. We dragged these out....
Two had dated stoppers, 1903 and 1906.

Blinkin fantastic find, we had to dig for all of five minutes to get in....

 

[SamT]

top trip andy - 

 

[AndyF]

Er..Hmmm.....Following further research by Sam it appears that it isn't a sough at all, but rather a chimney flue from an old lead works!! 

Nonetheless,  although recorded this hadn't actually been entered before. It is of some significance historically, and Sam suggests that we may want to put a proper grill on it, rather than just bury it.

Good fun hour spent though.

Andy

 

[darkplaces]

Does it lead anywhere, if not why grill it?  :chair:

 

[AndyF]

Does it lead anywhere, if not why grill it?  :chair:

Very close proximity to a village. Protection from kids etc. Also, being a smelter flue, the deposits on the floor will typically contain high concentrations of lead and arsenic.

 

[Mark]

Bradwell then

 

[AndyF]

Bradwell then

 

[darkplaces]

Does it lead anywhere, if not why grill it?  :chair:

Very close proximity to a village. Protection from kids etc. Also, being a smelter flue, the deposits on the floor will typically contain high concentrations of lead and arsenic.

No, still doesnt mean instant grill. I am sorry but that is the lamest reason to grill, what a tunnel! That only 'cavers' are allowed to visit? Will insurence be required? If someone wants to see it because it looks interesting (like it looks interesting to you) how do they get in if they have no concept of caving/clubs etc. Remembering its a very small minority who are on the internet.

 

[danthecavingman]

I think I know where this one might be. Are you keeping it quiet at the mo?

Dan.

 

[AndyF]

I think I know where this one might be. Are you keeping it quiet at the mo?

Dan.

No, it's not secret info anymore....(as it doen't have "miles of passage beyond a short dig" as I hoped). It's just outsdie the village in Bradwell Dale, on the left immediatly over a low wall. You are welcome to take a look...

Re DP's comments on a grill/cover, what would you suggest? If it's left open Derby Country Council will come along and either cover it with concrete sleepers or fill it in. - thats what they do to any shaft/entrance that is reported. They did it with Putwell Hill mine recently, so how would you handle it..?

 

[danthecavingman]

Not quite where I thought then! But was thinking of some other flues near Bradda. I'd guess that the flue is part of the smelting works that was powered by the waterwheel at the Lumb then?

Dan.

 

[AndyF]

Not quite where I thought then! But was thinking of some other flues near Bradda. I'd guess that the flue is part of the smelting works that was powered by the waterwheel at the Lumb then?

Dan.

Thats the theory, i'm going to look at a few old maps tonight. SamT has the best info on this, as he spoke to John Beck about it....

It's an interesting bit of 'passage'. The bottles in there I now think were dropped in there by workers, rather than creepage from the old tip above, because they are mostly the same brand. Maybe someones job was to go up the flues for cleaning etc. and he used to take a bottle with him. If they were from the tip they would most likely be more mixed, and there would have been more broken ones... Finding ones with dates on is amazing...

 

[darkplaces]

Why are they going to close it?
If its just a short tunnel that leads nowhere?
Cant they be shown its not a danger?
As you can tell is makes my blood boil as all that happens is;

1. Someone is interested, they dont bother, a caver is lost to eww that climber lot say.
2. Someone is interested, doesnt know who to contact vandalizes the gates, we all go "bloody vandals" having in a strange roundabout way created them ourselfs.
3. Someone vandalizes purly cuz they wernt culled early enough.
4. Becomes the 'Norm' - It becomes normal to gate anything not gated then we fall into the usual (argued million times before trap)

Anyway I have hijacked this thread. My solution would be to show them, say looks its not dangerous, its interesting and may spark interest in like minded people.

 

[SamT]

FFS c**tplaces. No of the parties involved are into "banning access" or "denying entry" or all of the draconian measures you think putting a gate on somewhere involves.

Its simply a matter of not wanting to loose access to it (or any knoledge of its existence for future generations, by digging out the collapse, making the arch safe around the entrance and put a grill/gate in to allow people to shine a torch in and look. Its a bit of local heritage that could do with preserving - thats all. With a powerfull enough torch - you could see end from the entrace anyhow.

you know - you really pump my nads sometimes DP, with all your anti establisment b***sh!t.*

(btw - it *is* dangeraous, the roof in places is a bit dodgy - if local kids did get in - prat about - knock the roof in, timmys not home for tea time etc etc)

 

[pisshead]

 

[cap n chris]

My solution would be to show them, say looks its not dangerous, its interesting and may spark interest in like minded people.

... go on then, do it!

Don't whine that someone else isn't doing what you want them to do.

Talk is cheap and easy. Actually doing stuff takes bloody ages, is frustrating, time-consuming, usually involves bureauracy (which means attending meetings, taking time out, sending/receiving letters/emails/phone calls), asking around to see if anyone has skills, equipment, manpower (for free), begging & borrowing raw materials, tools, vehicles; asking favours of people knowing that they probably can't or won't be repaid; occasionally having some money to spend but then needing to account for every last penny of it (or even paying out of your own funds, probably never to be repaid), writing budget break-downs and going cap in hand to granting agencies or writing applications to funding bodies - again, suspecting that nothing will come of it. Then overseeing fraught, logistically complex engineering works, writing risk assessments/officially required "work method statements", liaising between workers often involving more than two organisations with the complexities that creates with three- or four-way conversations/emails/phone calls; actually ending up doing a fair amount of unpaid hard graft on your own in all weathers occasionally assisted by good-hearted people who are helping you out of the kindness of their heart(s) for no reward, all while receiving "useful advice" from people about how you've done it wrong, how it should have been done differently and how the job isn't as good as they'd hoped  etc. etc..

An expression beginning with something rhyming with "suck" and ending with a word rhyming with "toff" often springs to mind when people get onto the topic of "Someone ought to do something about such-and-such".

Do it yourself.

My 2p.

 

[darkplaces]

All I ask is that all options are looked at before automatic gates applied. Balance safety with much needed risk.

Cap.

Andy F/Sam seam to have things well in hand.

I was concerned gates had been an automatic option, gates are expensive things.

 

[cap n chris]

All I ask is that all options are looked at before automatic gates applied

Who is to look at the options?
What are the options if there's no money available?
What if there is money available, where does it come from?
Who organises the funding?
Who implements it?
Who oversees the work?
Who determines whether something is safe?
The diggers?
The landowner?
The tenant?
The local council?
The parish council?
Local mine historians?
English Heritage?
English Nature?
The Environment Agency?

What usually tends to happen in situations where things either have to be made to happen by someone taking the task in hand or letting it "sort itself out" is that the hole gets filled in with whatever comes to hand, be it builders' rubble or other similar stuff.

 

[Hughie]

Well put, Cap'n. 

 

[AndyF]

ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!

What will really happen is that the gating faires will visit the place via B&Q one quiet day with a couple of bits of metal that amazingly fit, and neaten the collapse up so people can go and shine a torch to the end and say..."ohhh... thats interesting then"

No one will know who did it, and the nice people on the heritage walks will learn of it and include it in their itinery. Someone will moan, someone will write to the Parish council, someone will call it vandalism, someone will say "dunno who did that but they made a nice job of it", but in a week eveyone will forget it and it will be left protected from little Timy and safe for posterity...

The fairies will then proceed to someones house in Matlock and give the owner a good kicking :chair: for mentioning the "g" word on a forum. "We are doing this for you own good" they will say, " you must learn to keep your trap shut and just get on with things"