New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).

[Simon Wilson]

Most important, does the Turbo Foot flick off the rope easily like the Pantin does?

I see it has a carabiner hole at the bottom which I miss in the new Pantin.

 

[NewStuff]

Does it flick off the rope easily like the Pantin does?

A quick "jerk" up while tilting your foot seems to disengage it easily enough. Bear in mind, I'm still developing my technique.

 

[Simon Wilson]

It takes a bit of time to learn how to use a Pantin. Having got well used to it I think Petzl have got it just right and most people I've talked to agree. I'd like to try the Turbofoot but I don't want to be disappointed if it doesn't work as well as the Pantin.

 

[andrewmcleod]

... I've been using my old (10 years) Pantin and it is very sad, the strap protector has worn through (as I keep it on more than I should) and the salt and acid minewater have really corroded it bigtime. So, I had a bit of cash and decided to get a new Pantin.

A Petzl rep would at this point probably point out that your old Pantin wore out at the strap, while the new strap is dyneema and should be much more abrasion resilient than a nylon strap...

Incidentally Petzl are also selling a Catch now for the new (and nearly new?) Pantin should you wish to reinstate a locking catch (I don't think it's that expensive either, ?5-10?).

Actually looking at your photo it is NOT the newest (2016) Pantin which is all dyneema strap, but the 2013(?) model. I picked one of the 2016 models up from SR this weekend.

 

[Simon Wilson]

Thanks for that. I think most people, me included, wouldn't know there is a new 2016 version of the Pantin since it only came out in the last few weeks.

I think Mr Cornwall's gripe with the 2013 Pantin is that the strap will wear out. The strap will wear out on any foot ascender and you just have to accept that caving gives gear a hard life and if you're keen you give it a bloody hard life. I have found that the 2013 Pantin is better than the earlier one for strap wear. I think I might try the 2016 one in preference to the Camp Turbofoot. The problem I have with the Turbofoot is that I can't see any purpose for the rollers.

The Pantin works really well without rollers. The 2013 Croll is really bad because of the way it wears and the Camp Turbo Chest with it's rollers seems to be better, so far.

Rollers on a chest ascender, yes; rollers on a foot ascender, ???

 

[Disgusted from Cornwall.]

I have a turbochest and it is truly great.

I can't see what the need for foot rollers is though. CT have managed to keep their foot tube over the strap. As much as I respect the "give it hell, that's what it's for" comment, the problem is exactly that. I am exceedingly heavy on my kit and destroy everything. Think "rampaging gorilla". I like design to consider things like this. If it is made of dynameea, that's great, it should also have a cheapo sleeve. Whilst Petzl do have a business to run, I'd rather they charged me more for something better....rather than charging me more for something worse.

I would have paid double for the original "right size" ascenders. I have always used a basic and it is like an extension of my hand. The new one wasn't/isn't. The CT one is corroding like hell, the anodising is thin and wearing off and the stick out bit of the catch sometimes gets caught by my finger and slips.

I don't know what Petzl are up to, but I feel they are waking up the people who blindly used their products always by producing inferior rubbish. 

 

[NewStuff]

Having never used a Pantin, I can't say that the rollers on the Turbofoot make it better. What I do know is that my issue with my technique is that there is so little resistance when raising my foot, I have to concentrate on using the foot ascender, or I forget it's on my foot altogether.

It's a tiny little thing, I'll see if I can post a picture comparing it in size to some other bits of "standard" kit later on, but I was expecting something more substantial when I ordered it. It seems to work well enough though, and that's all I'm interested in at the moment.

 

[Simon Wilson]

I don't know what Petzl are up to, but I feel they are waking up the people who blindly used their products always by producing inferior rubbish.

I think I know what Petzl are up to and I'm not the only one. They are not run by cavers any more and they are catering for their biggest markets rope access, rescue, arborists etc.

 

[snoboy]

I don't know what Petzl are up to, but I feel they are waking up the people who blindly used their products always by producing inferior rubbish.

I think I know what Petzl are up to and I'm not the only one. They are not run by cavers any more and they are catering for their biggest markets rope access, rescue, arborists etc.

As a rope access tech, can't say that these changes discussed here are of much benefit to me either. The new smaller Basic and Croll are even worse when you take them into the world of 11mm rope and factory grunge. Much rescue in North America is based on 13mm (!) and the new gear doesn't even go there!

 

[cap n chris]

I think I know what Petzl are up to and I'm not the only one. They are not run by cavers any more and they are catering for their biggest markets rope access, rescue, arborists etc.

Petzl is an international player; caving is insignificant.

Companies cannot survive if they are catering for cavers/caving; cavers/caving need to re-task other industries' equipment to suit our own purposes. Expecting a business to tool up to make a batch run of 50 items and jump through all the bureauracy that goes with it?... you'll be holding your breath for a long time indeed. Micro-enterprises may be the best to approach. Complaining to them will not earn brownie points though.

 

[Peter Burgess]

cavers/caving need to re-task other industries' equipment to suit our own purposes.

It has been this way ever since someone borrowed their dad's Home Guard helmet so he could pop down Eastwater with his mates.

 

[Simon Wilson]

I think I know what Petzl are up to and I'm not the only one. They are not run by cavers any more and they are catering for their biggest markets rope access, rescue, arborists etc.

Petzl is an international player; caving is insignificant.

Companies cannot survive if they are catering for cavers/caving; cavers/caving need to re-task other industries' equipment to suit our own purposes. Expecting a business to tool up to make a batch run of 50 items and jump through all the bureauracy that goes with it?... you'll be holding your breath for a long time indeed. Micro-enterprises may be the best to approach.

Fernand Petzl was a caver, Petzl's main market was caving and they made equipment designed exclusively for caving. What has changed is that the rope access industry has grown to be a much bigger market than caving and caving is now a small proportion of Petzl's market. Petzl used to make the best caving gear but competitors are now starting to challenge their position as the leader.

Complaining to them will not earn brownie points though.

I don't want to earn brownie points; I want to see them to stop selling the new (2013) Croll before it kills someone.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Some of the move to lightweight gear may be a spillover of the mountaineering philosophy of generally reducing weight; climbing/mountaineering will be a much bigger market than caving (possibly still comparable to industrial stuff for Petzl - but more gear is shared between industrial and caving than between industrial and mountaineering).

Personally I think lighter kit is probably good in caving as well (provided it is still sufficiently robust).

 

[Simon Wilson]

Some of the move to lightweight gear may be a spillover of the mountaineering philosophy of generally reducing weight; climbing/mountaineering will be a much bigger market than caving (possibly still comparable to industrial stuff for Petzl - but more gear is shared between industrial and caving than between industrial and mountaineering).

Personally I think lighter kit is probably good in caving as well (provided it is still sufficiently robust).

I totally agree with all of that.

All Petzl ascenders used to be made from 4mm ally plate. The lightweight ones are made from 3mm plate but to the Croll they have added the highly dangerous 1mm stainless steel 'wear plate'.

The answer for Petzl is quick and easy. They already produce a version of the new compact shape Croll which is made from 4mm plate and does not have the wear plate.
https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Professional/Harnesses/TOP-CROLL#.VuANJ-Zy3vE

The problem is, I don't think they sell it without it being sewn to a harness. Petzl are you listening?

 

[NewStuff]

Piccie for size comparison. Ascension and Stop are 2010-ish.

 

[Disgusted from Cornwall.]

Croll . Now using Turbochest.
Basic. Now using CT Simple.

If I buy anything, I'll really shop around, rather than blinding saying "underground=petzl"

If enough people do this, it will not reflect well in their end of year reports.

Well done Camp, well done CT. A new company really struggles to break people out of the "I've used Petzl for 30 years and I always will" attitude. It seems petzl have thrown you a huge gift.

 

[AR]

The teeth are starting to go on my croll, birthday is coming up and having followed this thread (also seen Pwhole having problems with his new-style croll) I'll be putting in an order for a turbochest with Starless River....

 

[ah147]

I like my newer style croll and pantin....


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[Simon Wilson]

Obviously you haven't worn one out yet. The B16BAA Croll that is.

 

[Disgusted from Cornwall.]

Here's a "chinese" foot ascender off ebay vs my beloved old pantin.

Build quality is great, it's as good, if not better than the Petzl. My gripe is the spring is a bit more fierce. This may cause problems at the bottom of the pitch (a bit), but it shouldn't be the end of the world. Worth considering and a good ?15 cheaper as well.