Non caver's responses to caving part 1

[underground]

This thought came to me after reading the comments on the 'What got you into caving' thread. A hell of a lot of people I talk to seem to think i'm a little odd for going underground. They always, always talk about how grim it must be and say they would never do it. Then, suddenly loads of people start saying, 'ooh, you'll have to take me caving one day' but I always think they're just saying it for effect. I was chatting with someone on the Filthy Five on Saturday who said he thought most people actually have a curious desire to give it a bash...

So is this something that we've all experienced? And what do you do if it happens?

I tend to try and work out several things- a: Can I be bothered. b: Is this person serious or just a numpty? c: Will they keel over after 5 minutes. and d: Could I stand to be underground or in close confines with this person for any time?

 

[duggadig]

I've always found it the same. First its, 'oooh nooo, I can't do that, I'm claustrophobic', & 'don't you worry about getting stuck?' (Not that I'm especially fat).
I'm always the one saying 'I'll take you' but only a few have taken the challenge.
Of these former friends only one was any good, until the trip when he got stuck & it became clear that he was in fact, claustrophobic.
So the moral of my story is that you should carefully select people you dislike, before offering to take them caving! :twisted:

 

[bubba]

I've always had a very positive experience taking n00bs caving...

 

[dunc]

I usually find non-cavers don't know much about caving - it's always the classic statements - won't it be very cold down there, won't they be full of water.. Sometimes I can't be bothered explaining what it's like, others I can - depends on the person..

Then, suddenly loads of people start saying, 'ooh, you'll have to take me caving one day'

Yep, I've had that said to me quite a few times.. I've taken a few people fom work caving. First trip went well and everyone had a good time. The second works trip I did the two that came along wanted to go again! (but so far haven't)

 

[pisshead]

it depends, some new people who go caving will of course love it, others might just be saying they'll go so they don't sound wimpy - i think it's nice to let anyone who wants to give it a go, otherwise we can hardly complain that there aren't many cavers left!

I always say to people that think we're mad and it must be cold (etc.) that they don't know until they've tried it!

Probably a good idea to check if the person is terrified of heights first - we had one person who was happy until they had both feet on a ladder, then they just froze...

 

[Rob]

People in general tend to lead pretty boring lives... making sure they're up for Neighbours, tidy their room, eat some food, go spend £40 on crap drinks, then start all over again.
I know a lot of people who are at uni in Sheffield, in their 2nd or even 3rd year, but have never ventured out into the Peak District. And it's not particularly because they dont want to, just that they are wasters who'd prefer to not bother as it would take too much organisation.
Then one day maybe they all group together and plan an adventure out into Derbyshire, maybe make it all the way to Castleton, have a beer, maybe walk half way up Winnats, then go home. That's as exciting as it gets for them, but yet they DO want to do something.
Then when you offer them a pretty much free trip out there, organise all the gear for them, show them the ropes (so to speak), they hardly have to put any effort in, so why not! They have a great time, probably even want to do it again sometime. But they are not the kind to put in the effort, so that is as far as it'll go.

That's what is so great about cavers. We dont wait for things to happen, we make them happen.

 

[Dave H]

I agree with Rob about students, but they are not in a class of their own! I think that much of society is going that way. That's why there are so few youth clubs, struggling Scouts, or even Young Farmers (yes, it's not just a town thing!) I can't believe that students actually tidy their rooms though!

I've taken beginners for many years; first training Leics. Poly students, and latterly Scouts. I find that on average half of them that sign up will actually turn up for a first trip and of them about half will cave a second time.

In 20 years I've only ever had a handful of people say that they haven't enjoyed the trip, although many have been quite vocal in explaining why they won't be coming again!

I find that if you spend a few minutes talking to each of them one-on-one before the trip, you can quite easily work out what they are capable of, and tailor the trip appropriately. For instance on a Giants Hole trip we usually split the youngsters into 2 groups. One group try the oxbow squeeze (in the sump 1 blasted bypass) on the way in and the other on the way out. The latter group contains those who expressed real concerns over passage tightness, and we never seem to have time for them to try the oxbow on the way out!

I've only ever had two people (both Poly students) with problems – one girl didn't like the bridging on the outward side of the Giants Windpipe, but that was solved by attaching my cows-tails between us – and one girl who froze on the bottom rung of the ladder on the way out. That was solved with the application of a carbide lamp flame to the rear (ala Jim Eyre style).

The problems with getting people off their back-sides are a problem for all of society.:sad:

 

[Stupot]

I get a huge amount of stick at work because i am a caver, with comments like "bog snoggler" and "Who's dirty hole are you exploring tonight then Stu?" :shock:
They try to ask questions and understand why i do it but i find myself talking to idiots, basically.....

"Cavers would not ask the question, and non cavers would not understand the answer"

The strange thing is when i ask them what they are up to tonight, 9 out of 10 will say "watching the telly" or "in with the missus" ......Very shallow lives.

I once took a good mate on a short trip as he was pestering me for weeks, now this guy runs about 3 marathons a year, runs 5 miles a night, and goes to the gym every lunch time....... well i have never seen anyone so knackered in my life, i honestly thought he was going to die on me. The fact is they are weak ..... and they know it :twisted:

Stu.

 

[cap n chris]

If you want people to turn up on a trip you're organising, simply charge them an up front fee of £10 for the kit use/hire/wear and tear. They'll be there on time for sure.

 

[donna]

It is a sad reflection on society that if your pastimes involve anything other than watching tv and/or drinking yourself senseless you are regarded as odd. Let it be known you are a caver and you are a real weirdo.
I have not been caving long but have already got fed up of being asked at work why I do it. I do not have to justify it. I just say it is good and I like it. One guy said he would only cave if it was nice and clean and dry - wimp! And one said he did not like the dark, and then asked me, quite seriously, if all caves now had electric lighting (the fool had once been down a showcave).
It is sad, but sitting slumped in front of tv watching the same old shit night after night is probably all a lot of people are capable of doing.

 

[cap n chris]

Welcome to the real world, Donna.

 

[paul]

Let it be known you are a caver and you are a real weirdo.

Most cavers I know ARE weirdos! :wink:

The best retort I have heard to the inane comment from male worker to a female caver came from Jenny Potts. When she got flak from fellow male workers after the weekend such as "Been down any dirty holes recently?" she would reply "Kicked any good balls recently?"

 

[darkplaces]

Rather sad really, large part of the population just watching TV or drinking down the pub, not really doing anything. Some of you know my views on how over regulation and how this is a barrier to some. Sometimes its that one visit and someone is hooked.

People do look at me strange if I tell them (when asked) what I did on the weekend or the evening. "Night Vision?" they say, "ropes involved!" and "Well I had a nice relaxing drink down the pub" or "infront of the telly" after sitting down all day in the office drinking tea. I suspect my job refects part of my underground life, a field engineer, roaming the Uk fixing things but with an eye out for unexplored bunkers/mines and quarries.

And as for going in an open hole without written permission :shock: oh my god! That makes me worse then an evil drug pusher.

Looking forward to being a menacing presence just like Paul...

 

[Brendan]

I find Paul very menacing :wink:

 

[dunc]

I have semi-understanding people at work (more so from the ones I've taken caving) - I had a day off Saturday (with the intention of doing White Scar - so early start is required) so upon return to work this week I got asked by one person if I went out Friday night - no, semi-early night was my reply - oh, right, not good, he says - as if I'm some kinda oddball for not doing going out.. I said no more on the subject - Ignorance is Bliss apparently

Totally happy to be a caver and walker, I find it far more rewarding than tv/football/clubbing/other typical standard activities.. I only wish I'd discovered caving a few years before I did!

 

[SamT]

now ere dis

what if you where to turn up to giants on a saturday - and the whole crowd from Old Trafford had given up watching football and taken up caving and had all decided to the Round trip. All the afternoon drinkers from the bars and pubs of greater manchester had decided to do P8 and Stoney dale contained every last shopper from Meadowhall.

Enjoy your little quiet, underground world and let them enjoy theirs

Think about it.

 

[dunc]

what if you where to turn up to giants on a saturday

Thats ok cus I'm a Yorkshire caver - you can keep em!

Although I do see your point on that... They can keep the tv/clubs/football/shops.. I'll keep the caves... however odd I may appear for doing so!!

"Different and proud of it"

 

[pisshead]

good point well made

 

[bubba]

Listen to you lot :roll:

There's a lot of elitism on this topic - just because people don't want to mess about in holes in the ground doesn't make them boring! And just because they don't do outdoor stuff doesn't automatically mean that all they do is sit at home and watch telly.

Ok, there *are* a lot of people who just do that, but there's an equal number of people out there with diverse interests, and also many many people who don't have the spare time for such activities due to kids/being carers/etc.

Take those blinkers off....

 

[SamT]

Did I foget the the entire crowds from Bolton Burnley Oldham Durham Newcastle Leeds Bradford Harrogate Huddersfield Hull York etc turning up at Bar Pot.
Oh - and dont get me started on the london clubs and swildons.