1834 Images/survey drawings of Peak Cavern

[Space Doubt Caver]

Hey peeps,

Looking at the Caving Library and there are these amazing survey drawings of Peak Cavern in 1834.
https://caving-library.org.uk/catal...=search&orig=&search_string=survey&search=tag

There are ones after that date, but just look how amazing they look, and how detailed they are.

I used to have a book that had surveys and illustrations just like these, and that's what got me into caving and drives me to this day, I would look at the pictures they drew and my mind would wonder daydreaming about going to these places and i have been underground with a carbide lamp too which was very good and smells like bad eggs, but non the less a great experience in itself.

Still to this day i love looking at caving history, and still get that sense of fascination, since i found these gems online, they are very fascinating.

To think about what what caving was like for the early pioneers of exploration, and people who worked the mines back then is always going to be fascinating.

I thought i'd share, because people on here may have more images like these of other locations in history, that you may be able to share, or talk about.

 

[langcliffe]

Any of those referring to the BSA records may be found in the BCRA Online Archive. e.g. the Monty Grainger survey.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

Any of those referring to the BSA records may be found in the BCRA Online Archive. e.g. the Monty Grainger survey.

Wow from 1934 too, peak cavern has such an rich history, i bought one of the new surveys of peak cavern at Hidden Earth, and it's amazing seeing the difference.

What a great find.

 

[pwhole]

There's some seriously old graffiti in the showcave too - I'm hoping to do a photographic record of it all soon. This is the earliest I've found so far, but only as it was relatively separate - much of it in there is overlying earlier scratchings, so it's very chaotic. It'll ultimately have to be very high contrast shots to bring them out.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

There's some seriously old graffiti in the showcave too - I'm hoping to do a photographic record of it all soon. This is the earliest I've found so far, but only as it was relatively separate - much of it in there is overlying earlier scratchings, so it's very chaotic. It'll ultimately have to be very high contrast shots to bring them out.

Recording them all would be a tedious undertaking but also amazing once completed, I'd love to see it when it's complete, i wonder if they are some of the original explorers names would be very interesting to find out, i wonder if some have dates too.

Thank you for sharing this, i look forward to seeing your progress.100%

 

[pwhole]

Much of it is on discrete areas of fairly plain walls, so with some decent flash much could be done in a single frame, with detail shots as well. Some areas just look like a Jackson Pollock painting they're so dense, and are completely unreadable, but there's a few nice ones around the edges. I'm not even sure if the guides know where many of these are as you don't really see them without a headtorch - although I was told about Elias Pedley's signature by one of the guides. The passage between the Great Cave and Roger Rains is plastered with scratched graffiti, but it's not lit so you don't see them.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

Much of it is on discrete areas of fairly plain walls, so with some decent flash much could be done in a single frame, with detail shots as well. Some areas just look like a Jackson Pollock painting they're so dense, and are completely unreadable, but there's a few nice ones around the edges. I'm not even sure if the guides know where many of these are as you don't really see them without a headtorch - although I was told about Elias Pedley's signature by one of the guides. The passage between the Great Cave and Roger Rains is plastered with scratched graffiti, but it's not lit so you don't see them.

Wow thats been there since 1799, and we are today in 2024 seeing this is amazing

 

[Lankyman]

There's some seriously old graffiti in the showcave too - I'm hoping to do a photographic record of it all soon. This is the earliest I've found so far, but only as it was relatively separate - much of it in there is overlying earlier scratchings, so it's very chaotic. It'll ultimately have to be very high contrast shots to bring them out.

View attachment 21297

I've seen very old graffiti carved at cave entrances elsewhere - 1702 at Dead Man's Cave, near Feizor might be the oldest I can recall. Given the fact that people have been visiting our caves for centuries there must be examples elsewhere.

Old graffiti, Dead Man's Cave (2) © Karl and Ali

The entrance of [[5192103]] is covered in carved graffiti some of which appears to be very old. This example is dated 1702.

www.geograph.org.uk

 

[Pitlamp]

pwhole said (of Peak Cavern): "There's some seriously old graffiti in the showcave too - I'm hoping to do a photographic record of it all soon."

Please do it!

In 1997 I had to have an operation on my elbow which stopped me from normal caving for quite some time.
I decided to use the time to make a photographic record of all the graffiti in Peak and Speedwell that I was aware of. As many folk know I'm rubbish at photography and this was all done on prints (as I'd no digital camera then). I gave all the prints to the British Caving Library so there would at least be some record of what was there in that year.

This collection of images is presumably at Glutton Bridge. If you're expecting to be down that way it may be worth consulting the folder of pictures as it might include a few which no longer exist, or have been overwritten by modern yobs (or should that say tomorrow's providers of valuable historical material?), or which you're not familiar with. But please do go ahead with this project because you know how to drive a camera far better than I ever will and the sooner the better, in case any of the grafitti gets damaged meanwhile.

Photographs of such things are really important. (Yes, I realise I'm preaching to the converted here!) Clive took a good picture of the miners' "AI" scratched on the wall in Far Sump Extension, in the days when only divers could access this area. I think it was published in Descent at the time. On one of the first dry cavers' trips following the connection from JH / Speedwell, this was inadvertently rubbed off by someone unfamiliar brushing against it. I mention this because it might be worth asking Clive if he can let you have this image to include in your photographic record.

 

[pwhole]

I will do it soon, promise - will have to be evening trips really to be practical. The ephemeral graffiti is the most awkward - I managed to trash this a week after photographing it, due to its awkward location - but avoiding it long-term would have been a nightmare. It may have been Walter Sissons, but without more conclusive evidence it's all guesswork.

 

[Pitlamp]

Good man; I think this worthwhile project is in safe hands!

 

[Lankyman]

Good man; I think this worthwhile project is in safe hands!

I recall attending a campfire lecture given by a ranger at Arches NP in Utah some years ago. He was talking about preserving native carvings and pictograms (including European pioneer graffiti). I asked him where the cut-off date was - what's modern scribbling and what's 'historical'? I wasn't really expecting a coherent answer but there was! I can't now remember what that was but it was something definite like pre-1960 perhaps. Sadly, I've seen native rock art defaced by modern scrawl elsewhere in Utah.

 

[Mrs Trellis]

I read somewhere (Ford et al.?) that the guides carried tourists on their backs so they could scratch their graffiti on virgin rock.