Observations on CNCC meeting

[georgenorth]

What about These three against the other almost three thousand cavers on this UK Caving forum and elsewhere who are obviously happy with the officers of BCA and CNCC and Welsh, Derbyshire  and Southern equivalents.

As another one of the 3000 members of this forum I'd also like to point out that I am far from happy with the current state of affairs with regards to the CNCC. Although I don't doubt that the 'digging permit' system was set up with good intentions (and may actually have been a good idea in some ways!) the way it was handled was clearly always going to piss a lot of people off when its existence came to light.

It's also very clear that there's a lot of confusion about who's interests the CNCC actually serves, i.e. those of the member clubs, or of cavers as a whole (in which case issuing permits to DIMs would clearly be a major step forward).

George.

 

[exsumper]

Interestingly this forum has almost 3000 members.

This topic which has set out to assassinate the character of both the CNCC and BCA officers has mainly been kept going by only one guy who regularly caves in the region and two who by their own admittance rarely if ever cave up here in Yorkshire.

As Pitlamp says "perhaps a more balanced debate"

What about These three against the other almost three thousand cavers on this UK Caving forum and elsewhere who are obviously happy with the officers of BCA and CNCC and Welsh, Derbyshire  and Southern equivalents.

I'm an exploration caver who has good reason to praise both CNCC and BCA they have been very helpful, for which I am equally
appreciative. these are great guys who give their time voluntarily to ensure overall access to our caves is maintained.

A Big thankyou to all those who work in these groups giving their time to ensure the rest of us can just get on and enjoy ourselves


Richard

Richard:

Please don't put words into my mouth, or attribute motives to me that aren't true!

For the record, I have no argument with any officer of the CNCC, BCA or other regional council, who discharge the duties they have volunteered for, competently, to the best of their ability, in a democratic, honest and open manner; whilst at all times representing the best interests of  their members. i.e us ordinary cavers!

If you review the numerous posts on this subject you will soon realise that the reason we are angry and keep pursuing this matter, is that the actions and behaviour of some CNCC and BCA officers appears to have strayed rather wide of this ideal; to say the least.

From the evidence that has come to light it would appear that, for reasons as yet unknown, these officers have not been representing the best interests of ordinary cavers, but their own and that of unknown third parties!

As we've all said before, if there is a reasonable explanations for their shenanigans, they should be open, honest and tell us all what they are!  If they did the "Terrible trio" would'nt bother them again!

 

[exsumper]

I'm an exploration caver  Aren't we all love

Who has good reason to praise both CNCC and BCA they have been very helpful, for which I am equally appreciative.  Did they give you a secret digging permit?

Is this an honest post? or are you a chum of theirs?

 

[Smiley Alan]

the other almost three thousand cavers on this UK Caving forum and elsewhere who are obviously happy with the officers of BCA and CNCC and Welsh, Derbyshire  and Southern equivalents.

thats bollocks mate

 

[darren]

I'm beginning to think Richards original post as a cunning plan to get those who aren't happy to show there support.

 

[richardg]

I'm an exploration caver  Aren't we all love

Who has good reason to praise both CNCC and BCA they have been very helpful, for which I am equally appreciative.  Did they give you a secret digging permit?

Is this an honest post? or are you a chum of theirs?

Ha Ha ... No, no Exsumper!. I'm not one of the secret permit team!   

 

[exsumper]

I'm an exploration caver  Aren't we all love

Who has good reason to praise both CNCC and BCA they have been very helpful, for which I am equally appreciative.  Did they give you a secret digging permit?

Is this an honest post? or are you a chum of theirs?

Ha Ha ... No, no Exsumper!. I'm not one of the secret permit team!   

Who are the secret permit team???

 

[droid]

As one of the 'Silent Majority':

This farce could have been avoided had Simon's reasonable question been answered candidly.

Like the 'Lathkill' thread, evasiveness/finding excuses not to answer just arouses or confirms peoples' suspicions.

 

[Les W]

Post removed at user's request

Just to be clear on this point. No formal arrangements have been made or will be made concerning EuroSpeleo 2016 until we have firm dates, which requires that we have a firm venue booking. Although we are quite close to this position, we have yet to confirm the venue, and until that is done we cannot do anything else.

That said we have been in informal discussions about the likelihood of piggy backing onto the Craven Winch Meet, with the Craven running it. We have not discussed with anybody about "requisitioning" a winch from anybody...

Les Williams
Eurospeleo 2016 Co-ordinator

 

[Smiley Alan]

if  winch meets charge  members of the public to go in to  gaping gyhll is'nt  that commmercial caving ?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Only if individuals gain financially from the operation.

 

[Stu]

It's organisations and/or individuals. They need permission of the landowner. We'll assume that's a given.

Schedule 2 Section 2(1) (t) engages in any activity which is organised or undertaken (whether by him or another) for any commercial purpose.

 

[Brains]

I am another of the silent majority and as a non club caver feel I have no voice with the CNCC. Ideally I would like permits to be available to DIMs and the granting of such to be brought into the 21st century, rather than laguishing in the 19th!
Secret deals, shady goings on, potential ineligible committee members, etc... Doesnt sound good really does it?

 

[Bob Mehew]

At a slight tangent, back now over 10 years ago, when we were negotiation to create BCA, we did raise the topic of DIMs getting permits from CNCC.  We were told that the agreements CNCC had with the land owners specifically specified clubs, so to achieve permits for DIMs would require renegotiating these agreements.  We dropped that topic to concentrate on easier targets, like, as we did achieve, getting permits for issue to every member club of BCA.  Prior to BCA coming into being, clubs outside of the north had to become to be an associate member of CNCC and pay a subscription to get a permit which as I recall did require jumping through some hoops.  That specific agreement was significant in persuading other regions to make other concessions and thus bring BCA into being.

By the way access to Gaping Gill is directly controlled by the Ingleborough estate, not through CNCC.

 

[ian.p]

For the attention of all northern cavers:
I shall be standing for secretary at the next CNCC AGM. For those of you who don't already know me I am an active northern caver who is regularly involved in digging and scientific work in the dales as well as sport caving. I am a member of ULSA spend a lot of time training students and help with two youth caving organisations. One of my lines of work is as a caving instructor so I have a good working knowledge of the needs and conflicts around the commercial sector. I have previously chaired the Council of Higher Education Caving Clubs and sit on the council of the BCRA.
My motivations for standing are born out of frustration with the current system which I don't feel is administered fairly and recent policy decisions from the CNCC which I don't feel represent me or my fellow club members.  I am standing reluctantly but the CNCC must change before it starts to actively damage northern caving.
I could write some sort of manifesto but ill keep it to this: I believe the CNCC should be facilitating access not controlling it. I hope this encourages other northern cavers to stand for positions.
Ian Peachey

 

[Simon Wilson]

Thankyou, thankyou, THANKYOU!
I can assure you that you will have the full support of the EPC and I feel confident that you will be surrounded by a whole host of supporters and helpers from across the whole caving scene.
Three cheers for Ian Peachey.

 

[Simon Wilson]

At a slight tangent,

With the greatest respect Bob; The priority is sorting out the mess and bringing the CNCC back onto a sound democratic foundation. I have confidence that democracy will prevail and issues such as that of DIMs and several others will be resolved in due course. At the moment we all need to concentrate on changing the officers of the CNCC.

Did I say, WELL DONE PEACHEY?

 

[Judi Durber]

Ian,  WELL DONE for putting your name forward.   

I do hope you get some good support to untangle and clarify some of the queries.

Well done  :bow:

 

[Smiley Alan]

if you can do  this ...... ..

At the moment we all need to concentrate on changing the officers of the CNCC.

then  ill beleve  this ....

I have confidence that democracy will prevail and issues such as that of DIMs and several others will be resolved in due course.

gess you  just need a few more  keen yongsters  to step forwad

 

[Mrs Bottlebank]

Never underestimate the power of a forum stalker. Just because we don't comment doesn't mean we don't have an interest in a given subject.

As another representative of the silent majority very pleased that one person has stepped up to try and shake up the system from within but it needs more. Our club, EPC, already has an active protagonist any other clubs willing to stand up put themselves forward.